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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Accidentally crept through red light, NIP sent, what to expect (never had an NIP before).
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Fragglesque
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2021
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Lewes Road A270 google link - A270, Brighton
https://goo.gl/maps/AVxbDR5T5LdAqEtz8 (I’ll have to check the exact location as listed when I’m off my work shift.
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Accidentally crawled through a red light trying to find a new build not listed on a sat nav, sat nav giving incorrect instructions (understand this is not legal mitigation). Stopped on other side of red light when I realised

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 08:18:19 +0000
TMC Towcester
What can we help you with?

Not much by way of a defence so often just best to suck it up and move on.............
Jlc
Is time into red given?
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 16 Jan 2021 - 08:24) *
Is time into red given?


No. I haven’t received details of the offence beyond time, date, location.
TMC Towcester
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Sat, 16 Jan 2021 - 12:04) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 16 Jan 2021 - 08:24) *
Is time into red given?


No. I haven’t received details of the offence beyond time, date, location.


so, repeat the question - what can we help with? At the moment you're being asked to name the driver, nothing more.
cp8759
You just need to name the driver and see what they say.
Ziggyplayedguitar2
read my thread...


Tricky Situation, Assume I encroached a Red Light Line for a long period.



You want get much sympathy ....but it is 10 times more than wnat youd get off Money Saving Expert Forum.They make you feel like Peter Sutcliffe on there.



To balance the future comments on here....you ain't done a lot wrong bud.Everyone on here has done it...they just havent got caught??But it is cut and dried ....no defence .....deffo 3 points and depending on how many secs you jumped it by will be court appearance or 3 points and standard £100 fine.


good luck

The Rookie
QUOTE (Ziggyplayedguitar2 @ Mon, 18 Jan 2021 - 15:08) *
You want get much sympathy ....but it is 10 times more than wnat youd get off Money Saving Expert Forum.They make you feel like Peter Sutcliffe on there.

We have strict rules that are well enforced, the basic principles are
1/ What the poster says is true (unless clealry untrue)
2/ If you don't want to help, don't post.

This doesn't mean you can't be told you are wrong and your case wholly without merit, but it generally means we stay (as a group) stay just on the polite side although human nature means some may get a little frustrated and stray over the line.

People do understand how creeping over the line can happen, but it's also well within a driver's abilities to not do it, the law doesn't allow it.
Ziggyplayedguitar2
People do understand how creeping over the line can happen, but it's also well within a driver's abilities to not do it, the law doesn't allow it.




Get your point ...however it seems like a common occurence ....theres the OP ...MYSELF ....and the one I witnessed yesterday in the 15 mins I happened to be in Sheffield yesterday.Maybe the highway code should highlight it as a potential hanging offence ??




The Rookie
Your told in the HC you MUST NOT do it, that's clear enough. As it's a low level offence, what do you think the HC should then say about serious ones like careless, dangerous, causing death by, drink driving etc?
Fragglesque
I’ve actually been sent a letter stating I won’t get a FPN for this as I’ve alledgedly gone through the light 9.4 seconds after it had turned red. I’ve made an honest mistake at a time of great personal stress to me but also because my job relies on driving I’m also bricking myself I’ll lose my license (held license since 2001 with no penalties points/speeding tickets etc etc, but I am a blue light driver so I suspect they’ll want to throw the book at me in court, just to be clear this happened in my personal vehicle).

Obviously I want to offer all the mitigating circumstances possible but I also don’t want to incriminate myself. I’ve been given no information of what they plan to charge me with, and they’ve not offered the photographic evidence from the camera that has alledgedly caught me? Is it reasonable to request this information from the partnership pushing for the prosecution, and should I engage a solicitor to help me word responses in court?
Jlc
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 16:09) *
I’ve actually been sent a letter stating I won’t get a FPN for this as I’ve alledgedly gone through the light 9.4 seconds after it had turned red. I’ve made an honest mistake at a time of great personal stress to me but also because my job relies on driving I’m also bricking myself I’ll lose my license (held license since 2001 with no penalties points/speeding tickets etc etc, but I am a blue light driver so I suspect they’ll want to throw the book at me in court, just to be clear this happened in my personal vehicle).

It's routine. They will almost certainly pursue the red light offence only which will still result in 3 points but just a larger fine. (Income related+costs+surcharge)

How will they know you are a blue light driver?

You need to be careful with anything you say as it's very easy to aggravate rather than actually mitigate, i.e. the 'stress' (questions whether you should have been driving for example)

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 16:09) *
Obviously I want to offer all the mitigating circumstances possible but I also don’t want to incriminate myself. I’ve been given no information of what they plan to charge me with, and they’ve not offered the photographic evidence from the camera that has alledgedly caught me? Is it reasonable to request this information from the partnership pushing for the prosecution, and should I engage a solicitor to help me word responses in court?

You can ask for evidence but at this stage they are unlikely to give it to you. (This may have been done prior to naming the driver)

It doesn't sound like you deny the offence though? From your own account you crept over the stop line during red but did not progress?

Once the prosecution progresses you have the right to see the information they intend to use.

The next post you'll receive is a SJPN (postal plea). I doubt they would refer the matter to a court hearing anyway.
NewJudge
You don’t seem to have much in the way of mitigation for the offence itself. You may offer some “personal mitigation” in respect of the stress you mentioned. That said, it’s unlikely to make any significant difference and you have to beware that you do not aggravate the matter. If the court believes your frame of mind was so disturbed to cause such a lack of concentration they may consider you should not have been driving at all.

This is not a “hanging offence”. You will not lose your licence. You will received an income related fine and three points. Your being a blue light driver should not influence that decision.

You are not entitled to any evidence until court proceedings are started and in any case it’s unlikely to be of much help to you as I assume you accept what happened.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 16:24) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 16:09) *
I’ve actually been sent a letter stating I won’t get a FPN for this as I’ve alledgedly gone through the light 9.4 seconds after it had turned red. I’ve made an honest mistake at a time of great personal stress to me but also because my job relies on driving I’m also bricking myself I’ll lose my license (held license since 2001 with no penalties points/speeding tickets etc etc, but I am a blue light driver so I suspect they’ll want to throw the book at me in court, just to be clear this happened in my personal vehicle).

It's routine. They will almost certainly pursue the red light offence only which will still result in 3 points but just a larger fine. (Income related+costs+surcharge)

How will they know you are a blue light driver?

You need to be careful with anything you say as it's very easy to aggravate rather than actually mitigate, i.e. the 'stress' (questions whether you should have been driving for example)

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 16:09) *
Obviously I want to offer all the mitigating circumstances possible but I also don’t want to incriminate myself. I’ve been given no information of what they plan to charge me with, and they’ve not offered the photographic evidence from the camera that has alledgedly caught me? Is it reasonable to request this information from the partnership pushing for the prosecution, and should I engage a solicitor to help me word responses in court?

You can ask for evidence but at this stage they are unlikely to give it to you. (This may have been done prior to naming the driver)

It doesn't sound like you deny the offence though? From your own account you crept over the stop line during red but did not progress?

Once the prosecution progresses you have the right to see the information they intend to use.

The next post you'll receive is a SJPN (postal plea). I doubt they would refer the matter to a court hearing anyway.


No I don’t deny it. I was looking for a new location which postcode was plotting to an incorrect place on google maps, on my way to a job interview, however I understand I need to be careful offering that as mitigation as it could be considered driving without due care and attention.

The only immediate stress factor was the job interview, but long lasting stress factors were a loss of my partners parent in august and having supported my partner for that time, the loss of my grandmother (3 days before) and my father having two sudden onset intercranial bleeds and currently waiting further treatment for that, additionally working frontline blue light medical for the duration of the pandemic. Basically I was counting on the job interview to hopefully get some progression at work and turn round what has been one of the ****est years of my life, and I suspect that my inability to find the location correctly and having a lot riding on the situation was really ramping up my anxiety and I made a completely honest mistake and will put my hands up to that.

What I’m really concerned about is obviously losing my license and not being able to work anymore (full clean driving license since 2001, never had points/speeding tickets/prosecutions...... once had a parking fine in morrisons supermarket about 17 years ago, and not had a fault insurance claim against me since 1999/2000 when I had a split fault claim on a moped).
666
As New Judge has said, you will not lose your licence.

It's a big deal for you, but it's routine and pretty small beer for the court. Try not to let it stress you - it could well be about six months before you hear anything more.

I don't believe anything you've said will help you in court. I suggest you limit yourself to being apologetic and blaming a momenary lapse.
TMC Towcester
QUOTE (666 @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:06) *
As New Judge has said, you will not lose your licence.

It's a big deal for you, but it's routine and pretty small beer for the court. Try not to let it stress you - it could well be about six months before you hear anything more.

I don't believe anything you've said will help you in court. I suggest you limit yourself to being apologetic and blaming a momenary lapse.


What he said ^^^^^^
Fragglesque
Ok thanks everyone, that’s putting my mind at ease a bit.

I’m a little confused, will they ask me to attend court in person? Or submit a written statement or something?

I’m going to ask the Sussex Safer Roads Partnership how I can request the evidence from the camera, just so I’ve got it on record (I keep records of everything)
Ocelot
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:28) *
Ok thanks everyone, that’s putting my mind at ease a bit.

I’m a little confused, will they ask me to attend court in person? Or submit a written statement or something?

I’m going to ask the Sussex Safer Roads Partnership how I can request the evidence from the camera, just so I’ve got it on record (I keep records of everything)


You are unlikely to be asked to attend Court. It would normally be a Single Justice Procedure Notice (SJPN - google it) if you are not getting a FPN.

You won't get 'evidence' unless you plead not guilty and any evidence they have against you is disclosed before the trial, but you may be able to ask for 'photos that might help you identify the driver' if you ask (no guarantee).
Jlc
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:28) *
I’m a little confused, will they ask me to attend court in person? Or submit a written statement or something?

You will almost certainly receive a SJPN - for which a single justice will assess your case and you cannot attend this.

I doubt they'll decide to request your presence.

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:28) *
I’m going to ask the Sussex Safer Roads Partnership how I can request the evidence from the camera, just so I’ve got it on record (I keep records of everything)

You can simply ask them for a photo - but as it's going to court you may have to wait before you can request disclosure.
Fragglesque
Ah ok. It all makes a bit more sense now. Thanks all.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 18:17) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:28) *
I’m a little confused, will they ask me to attend court in person? Or submit a written statement or something?

You will almost certainly receive a SJPN - for which a single justice will assess your case and you cannot attend this.

I doubt they'll decide to request your presence.

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 17:28) *
I’m going to ask the Sussex Safer Roads Partnership how I can request the evidence from the camera, just so I’ve got it on record (I keep records of everything)

You can simply ask them for a photo - but as it's going to court you may have to wait before you can request disclosure.

They’ve sent me a portal to login to and I’ve got the images.

Does anyone know of a guide for writing mitigation for stuff like this?
The Rookie
Mitigation is for the court, not the police.

There is no easy guide, best way is to take what you consider, write it up, post here for review and comments and get a consensus.
Fragglesque
Would something like the following be ok?

I fully accept responsibility for the offence, and would like to take the opportunity that this instance was completely out of character, I have held a full U.K. license since November 2001 and in that time have had no endorsements or fines on my license.

I am determined that offences like this will not happen again, as someone who drives professionally and works in an industry responding where taking responsibility, striving for improvement and acting with integrity are paramount, the weight of this prosecution lays heavily on my conscience.

At the time I was searching for a brand new address (the new ambulance station) which had only opened weeks before and the postcode had plotted to this road, with no obvious access to the address being found, I misunderstood the traffic light and filter lane ahead and drove through accidentally, on realising my mistake I did stop in the filter lane to the left hand side to see if anything could be done to mitigate any danger I had caused, to ensure I had not caused an accident and if I had to offer medical assistance in line with my professional training and to potentially swap insurance details. On being assured that no collisions had occurred and seeing another car pull up behind me in the filter lane, I once again proceeded to use the filter lane to pull off the A270 and clear the way for vehicles proceeding behind me.

As the endorsement can potentially effect my ongoing employment, this incident has caused me considerable anxiety and I am keen to seek the opportunity to apologise profusely for my action and find closure for this episode, to learn and improve from this experience.
The Rookie
Much too long for what you need to say.

Either an endorsement will affect you employment or it will not, can seems like the wrong word here. And really why would a single endorsement do that?
Fragglesque
Because I don’t know what the endorsement will be
BaggieBoy
It can only be 3 points.
Fragglesque
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?
666
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?

The image you've been sent is usually provided "to help identify the driver", and seldom helps much. They don't have to show you "evidence", and the photo you've got may not be one they'd rely on in court.

What are you trying to achieve by mitigation? As explained above, it can only be 3 points. The fine will be income-related. There's not much - if any - leeway.

And in any event, how would the image quality lessen the gravity of the offence?
Fragglesque
QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:18) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?

The image you've been sent is usually provided "to help identify the driver", and seldom helps much. They don't have to show you "evidence", and the photo you've got may not be one they'd rely on in court.

What are you trying to achieve by mitigation? As explained above, it can only be 3 points. The fine will be income-related. There's not much - if any - leeway.

And in any event, how would the image quality lessen the gravity of the offence?


I’m looking to ensure that the details provided on the photographs are accurate, date/times etc. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with due diligence?
Gerfc1
I wonder if you have named the driver.

Failing to do this will get charged with a large fine and 6 penalty points for failing to identify the driver.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:43) *
I wonder if you have named the driver.

Failing to do this will get charged with a large fine and 6 penalty points for failing to identify the driver.


I have named the driver, the police have acknowledged this via email but the public portal to login and see the process of the case and the photographic evidence from the camera has not been updated to reflect the return of the NIP despite assurances via email they have updated the portal and received the NIP form.
NewJudge
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:41) *
QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:18) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?

The image you've been sent is usually provided "to help identify the driver", and seldom helps much. They don't have to show you "evidence", and the photo you've got may not be one they'd rely on in court.

What are you trying to achieve by mitigation? As explained above, it can only be 3 points. The fine will be income-related. There's not much - if any - leeway.

And in any event, how would the image quality lessen the gravity of the offence?


I’m looking to ensure that the details provided on the photographs are accurate, date/times etc. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with due diligence?

As above, just what are you trying to achieve here?

First of all this:

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Fri, 29 Jan 2021 - 17:51) *
I fully accept responsibility for the offence, and would like to take the opportunity that this instance was completely out of character, I have held a full U.K. license since November 2001 and in that time have had no endorsements or fines on my license.

I am determined that offences like this will not happen again...


No ifs, buts or maybes. Then this:

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?


If you accept full responsibility for the offence you accept it as it stands. Quite why you should want to see better quality photographs is a mystery. If you doubt you committed the offence it would be different but you seem not to. The "mitigation" you have mentioned earlier is more like aggravation. If the stress you mention was such it was the reason for you committing the offence the court may wonder whether deciding to drive at all was the right call. Least said the better in these circumstances.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:03) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:41) *
QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:18) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?

The image you've been sent is usually provided "to help identify the driver", and seldom helps much. They don't have to show you "evidence", and the photo you've got may not be one they'd rely on in court.

What are you trying to achieve by mitigation? As explained above, it can only be 3 points. The fine will be income-related. There's not much - if any - leeway.

And in any event, how would the image quality lessen the gravity of the offence?



I’m looking to ensure that the details provided on the photographs are accurate, date/times etc. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with due diligence?

As above, just what are you trying to achieve here?

First of all this:

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Fri, 29 Jan 2021 - 17:51) *
I fully accept responsibility for the offence, and would like to take the opportunity that this instance was completely out of character, I have held a full U.K. license since November 2001 and in that time have had no endorsements or fines on my license.

I am determined that offences like this will not happen again...


No ifs, buts or maybes. Then this:

QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 17:02) *
They’ve sent me the camera images however the date/location/vehicle details on the bottom are unreadable, from what I can make it out looks like the date at the bottom also may be wrong, but I can’t be 100% sure.

I’ve obviously asked for the full quality image to see if the details are legible, but if they don’t have any better quality images to send, then should I raise that in the mitigation letter?


If you accept full responsibility for the offence you accept it as it stands. Quite why you should want to see better quality photographs is a mystery. If you doubt you committed the offence it would be different but you seem not to. The "mitigation" you have mentioned earlier is more like aggravation. If the stress you mention was such it was the reason for you committing the offence the court may wonder whether deciding to drive at all was the right call. Least said the better in these circumstances.


I’d accept responsibility for it if the photographic evidence is correct, if it’s not and there’s actually incorrectly dated evidence, why would I accept responsibility for something there’s no correctly dated evidence of me doing? If I had a photograph of you doing something but then said “I’m going to prosecute you for doing this on x date, but the photography happens to be dated on y date” would you just accept that?
As for why I was driving, I was having to drive for work, we’d requested work do this remotely but they refused.
Jlc
AIUI this is all pre-court stage - so there's no guarantees they are supplying anything of evidential quality.

I get your concern. Why don't you just ask them to check the date is correct?

As I said previously, disclosure can come later when the case is progressed to prosecution.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:18) *
AIUI this is all pre-court stage - so there's no guarantees they are supplying anything of evidential quality.

I get your concern. Why don't you just ask them to check the date is correct?

As I said previously, disclosure can come later when the case is progressed to prosecution.


I’ve asked them to send a higher quality image so I can verify myself, if they are unable to that I will ask them verify the date/time/location on the images.
Gerfc1
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:20) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:18) *
AIUI this is all pre-court stage - so there's no guarantees they are supplying anything of evidential quality.

I get your concern. Why don't you just ask them to check the date is correct?

As I said previously, disclosure can come later when the case is progressed to prosecution.


I’ve asked them to send a higher quality image so I can verify myself, if they are unable to that I will ask them verify the date/time/location on the images.


All they have are:

The name of the driver which you have named yourself against the registration plate.
The registration plate shown in the picture
Crossing the white line with red light showing

It is enough evidence to find guilty.
The Rookie
The images either prove the offence or they do not. There can not possibly be a grey area for mitigation between the two. There is no sentencing for ‘May or may not have committed the offence’.

Perhaps you still don’t understand the difference between mitigation (something which reduces the apparent severity of the offence or impacts how you should be punished) and a defence (not proven beyond reasonable doubt).
Fragglesque
QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:27) *
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:20) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:18) *
AIUI this is all pre-court stage - so there's no guarantees they are supplying anything of evidential quality.

I get your concern. Why don't you just ask them to check the date is correct?

As I said previously, disclosure can come later when the case is progressed to prosecution.


I’ve asked them to send a higher quality image so I can verify myself, if they are unable to that I will ask them verify the date/time/location on the images.


All they have are:

The name of the driver which you have named yourself against the registration plate.
The registration plate shown in the picture
Crossing the white line with red light showing

It is enough evidence to find guilty.


However if the photograph is dated as the date it looks like (3 days later than alleged on the NIP) then I would have declared myself the driver on the false pretences of an incorrect date being given on the NIP, the date on the photograph would be a date I was at working, logged into a CAD on a different vehicle, which at no point was I near the location in question.

There’s no harm in me questioning which date they’re prosecuting for if the dates are different, it would either be the date on the NIP (which if the date on the photograph is different would be unevidence), or it would be the date on the photograph (if it differs) for which I could provide evidence I wasn’t driving the vehicle, as I’d have been logged onto another vehicle and could get a map of where I’d driven that vehicle during the day.

Of course this does assume the dates are different but they have provided an image of high enough quality for me to verify that, which is all I’ve asked for.
NewJudge
You responded to the Section 172 request for driver's details based on the date, time and location mentioned on that request. It is that response which will be used to prove that you were driving at that date/time and that is the date/time which will form the basis of the prosecution. Any photographs you have seen since then are not relevant to that request.

When you get your "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (SJPN - which informs you that court proceedings have begun) you will be served with the evidence the police intend to rely on to prosecute you. It is that evidence you need to examine before you enter your plea. Anything you are provided with in the meantime may or may not form part of that evidence - you'll have to wait and see. You may not receive your SJPN until close to the six month deadline for prosecution.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 3 Feb 2021 - 18:48) *
You responded to the Section 172 request for driver's details based on the date, time and location mentioned on that request. It is that response which will be used to prove that you were driving at that date/time and that is the date/time which will form the basis of the prosecution. Any photographs you have seen since then are not relevant to that request.

When you get your "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (SJPN - which informs you that court proceedings have begun) you will be served with the evidence the police intend to rely on to prosecute you. It is that evidence you need to examine before you enter your plea. Anything you are provided with in the meantime may or may not form part of that evidence - you'll have to wait and see. You may not receive your SJPN until close to the six month deadline for prosecution.


Ok, thanks, none of that has been explained to me in the notification of referral to magistrates.
The Rookie
Because that’s not a legally required document and has no specific format, it is in fact just a courtesy, so there is no need for it to explain anything at all.
Fragglesque
So my SJPN has arrived today, I'm just trying to work out the wording of my mitigation. I'm just wondering whether its worth mentioning about the stress of 2 of my relatives passing and 1 being seriously ill at the time, and that I'd been working NHS Covid frontline thought and had a pretty horrid run of jobs in the month preceding this, or whether that makes no odds, and would just lead them to question whether I was too stressed to have been driving?
The Rookie
You got it right at the end, suggesting you were so stressed you shouldn't have been driving is aggravating not mitigating. If you have no mitigation best say nothing at all.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 6 May 2021 - 16:13) *
You got it right at the end, suggesting you were so stressed you shouldn't have been driving is aggravating not mitigating. If you have no mitigation best say nothing at all.


Mitigation wise I've just mentioned that I navigated to an incorrectly plotted postcode for a new building that had been recently finished, went through the lightt slowly, stopped when I realised to swap insurance details incase I'd caused and accident and to see if anyone needed medical attention, and that I've never had fines or endorsements in the 20 odd years I've been driving.

QUOTE
I fully accept responsibility for the offence, and would like to take the opportunity that this instance was completely out of character, I have held a full U.K. license since November 2001 and in that time have had no endorsements or fines on my license.

At the time I was searching for a brand new address (the new Brighton ambulance station) which had only opened weeks before and the postcode had plotted to this road. With no obvious access to the address being found, I misunderstood the traffic light and filter lane ahead and drove through at I believe less than 20 miles per hour accidentally. On realising my mistake I did stop in the filter lane to the left hand side to see if anything could be done to mitigate any danger I had caused, to ensure I had not caused an accident and if I had to offer medical assistance in line with my professional training and to potentially swap insurance details. On being assured that no collisions had occurred and seeing another car pull up behind me in the filter lane, I once again proceeded to use the filter lane to pull off the A270 and clear the way for vehicles proceeding behind me.

As someone who drives professionally and works in an industry where taking responsibility, striving for improvement and acting with integrity are paramount, the weight of this prosecution lays heavily on my conscience and I am keen to offer my sincere apologies for this incident and to learn and improve from this experience.
The Rookie
Send by all means, don’t expect it to make any difference AT ALL. Quite literally none.
666
QUOTE (Fragglesque @ Thu, 6 May 2021 - 16:36) *
Mitigation wise I've just mentioned that I navigated to an incorrectly plotted postcode for a new building that had been recently finished, went through the lightt slowly, stopped when I realised to swap insurance details incase I'd caused and accident and to see if anyone needed medical attention, and that I've never had fines or endorsements in the 20 odd years I've been driving.

There was no accident, so even don't suggest that there might have been. That makes a fairly trivial offence sound much worse than it was.

And your clean driving record will make no difference.

The less said the better.
Fragglesque
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 6 May 2021 - 16:49) *
Send by all means, don’t expect it to make any difference AT ALL. Quite literally none.


Even from a personal point of view it gets it off my chest that I did well and truly cock up.
Jlc
QUOTE (666 @ Thu, 6 May 2021 - 16:59) *
The less said the better.

I think so too - the last thing you want is for the SJ to refer it to court.
Logician
So if you remove anything which implies this was a more serious incident than it was, and make a couple of corrections you are left with:


I fully accept responsibility for the offence, and would like to take the opportunity to state that this instance was completely out of character. I have held a full U.K. licence since November 2001 and in that time have had no endorsements on my licence or any fines.

At the time I was searching for a brand new address (the new Brighton ambulance station) which had only opened weeks before and the postcode had plotted to this road. With no obvious access to the address being found, I misunderstood the traffic light and filter lane ahead and drove through at I believe less than 20 miles per hour, without causing any danger or inconvenience to any other traffic.


As explained, this will not make the slightest difference but this version should at least not make matters worse. Many people do feel that they want to explain what happened and why, although recognising it makes no difference.
Fragglesque
So fine and points received from single justice service, fine paid and the email says the DVLA will ask for my license if they need it. I’ve read quite a lot about people getting extra fines for not sending their license to the DVLA, even though they didn’t know they needed to. Is this still something the DVLA do, or is it all done via their database now? Should I be expecting them to ask me to send my driving license card in?
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