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DerbyshireMX5
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2021
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A537/A54 NEAR WILDBOARCLOUGH TOWARDS BUXTON, UNITED KNIGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving home from work on a nice Friday afternoon, concentrating on the road and not my speed. There are two average speed cameras right before the Derbyshire border, I was driving downhill and was clocked doing 57mph in a 50 zone. The NIP says it was an "unmanned camera" but I'm quite sure that it must have been the two average speed cameras.
The road in question is right in the middle of a moor so nothing for miles, it was very quiet for a Friday.
I drive a 1999 MX5
I sent back the NIP before finding this website, I have now received the next letter where the still "alleged" offence has left me with two options, speed awareness course or fixed penalty - there is also no evidence provided


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 17:04:35 +0000
The Rookie
Well an average speed camera system is unmanned!

That is the normal offer, the course is the better bet usually. They don’t have to supply any evidence at this stage but will gladly do so if you decide to contest the allegation in court.

They take action at +10% +2mph or 57 in a 50, not sure what you mean by ‘so much for’?
DerbyshireMX5
Although extremely irksome I am willing to concede to a speed awareness course if it comes to it, but I fail to see how I can be prosecuted without any evidence?

For all I know I could have been sent the NIP by a hacker, so would love to know the best way to acquire proof I was speeding

TMC Towcester
QUOTE (DerbyshireMX5 @ Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 18:56) *
Although extremely irksome I am willing to concede to a speed awareness course if it comes to it, but I fail to see how I can be prosecuted without any evidence?

For all I know I could have been sent the NIP by a hacker, so would love to know the best way to acquire proof I was speeding


If ou haven't yet returned the S172 notice to name the driver, you can ask for an image to 'assist in the identification of the driver' (don't start mentioning evidence, proof etc) and they'll usually oblige.....but might just send you the best image. It's an average camera so they'll have sufficient evidence - decline the course and fixed-penalty and take it to courst to be sure, but an expensive day out!
NewJudge
You are not being prosecuted (well at least you won't be if you accept either the course or fixed penalty).

You could have asked for "photographs to help identify the driver" before you responded to the s172 notice requesting driver's details. There is no obligation to provide them but they usually do. They are unlikely to identify the driver but will show your vehicle and the location.

The simplest way to see the evidence they intend to rely on to prosecute you is to ignore the course or FP offers. Then you will be prosecuted in court. If you either plead guilty or are convicted following a trial you will face an income-related fine, a Victim Surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and £85 costs (if you plead guilty) or £620 (if you are convicted following a trial). You can see that even with a guilty plea, the surcharge and costs will exceed the amount you would pay for a course or fixed penalty.
Logician
The argument is that out-of-court disposals enable people who accept their guilt to avoid a court hearing which saves the public purse and they also receive some benefit. Those who do not like it can have a full court hearing in they wish, with all the panoply of a trial. Some areas nevertheless do provide the photographs routinely, usually displayed on a website accessed by a unique code. Others will provide them on request, the request that usually produces a favourable result is to ask for any available photographs to assist in identifying the driver. This does not stop the clock running on the time table.
Suziboy
The A54 and A537 have had average speed cameras for over a decade now, as the consequence of a small percentage of bikers and car enthusiasts pretending they were in the Isle of Man TT / Manx rally.

I'm a biker myself of 35+ years experience and local to the area. The speeds at which some bikers used to ride on both roads prior to the cameras being installed were suicidal, it really was a classic case of a stupid minority spoiling it for the majority.

It's unfortunate you got a NIP, but as mentioned enforcement starts at 57, not 58. Take the course.
Logician
There is very often confusion over this, with the media often quoting "a margin of 10% + 2mph" which is the lowest point at which action is normally taken, not the highest point for no action. The RAC website is very often wrong about legal matters, and will simply not publish any attempt at correction.
BertB
QUOTE (DerbyshireMX5 @ Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 18:56) *
but I fail to see how I can be prosecuted without any evidence?


They have evidence. They have an image of your vehicle exceeding the speed limit and a signed declaration from you admitting to being the driver at the time. What else would they need?

You could have opted to not assist them by refusing to return or complete the form, but then you would be guilty of a different offence that is a lot more costly than a simple speeding charge.
jfollows
I have myself incurred a penalty for the alleged offence of
EXCEED 50 MPH (UNMANNED CAMERA)
on 22/02/2013 at 13:30 hours
at A54 NEAR WILDBOARCLOUGH, >> CONGLETON
Recorded speed was: 57 mph
which I followed up with attendance at a speed awareness course for £75 on 25/03/2013 in the normal way.

Nothing special about this, nothing of significance has changed since then.

EDIT: In the same vein as the OP, I don't believe my speed at the time was excessive or unsafe, but I was aware of the posted limit and it's not my belief that matters, I recall that I was exceeding the speed limit as stated. I remember the journey because, subsequently in a NSL section of road, I recall overtaking a police car which wasn't going as fast as I wanted to go - I didn't need to exceed 60mph to perform the overtaking manoeuvre and this wasn't the reason for my speeding ticket!
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