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Tomi1921
I was pulled up by the police, unbeknown to me I didn't realise my car was uninsured!

I left it with my partner to insure the car but she forgot as we were also moving house.

Totally unacceptable, its my fault and accept the consequences.

The vehicle was recovered, the following day I had the vehicle insured paid upfront for the 12 months. Provided evidence at the police station who approved the release of the vehicle at the compound which I paid a fee for

The officer who pulled me up advised I'll be getting 3 points on my license

However at the police station the officer stated I'll be getting 6 points!

Reading online I've read its 6 points and a fine?

I've also read online it could also be handled by the court? Who decides this?

Could anyone kindly confirm what's correct as I'm getting conflicting information. This is my first offense
PASTMYBEST
Most likely a conditional offer of a fixed penalty 6 points and i think £300 or if court then the points will be the same but fine and costs might be higher
Tomi1921
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 15:10) *
Most likely a conditional offer of a fixed penalty 6 points and i think £300 or if court then the points will be the same but fine and costs might be higher

^ contradicts what the officer who pulled me up stated, all he said was 3 points, there was no mention of having to also pay a fine huh.gif

Who and how is it decided whether it goes to court? On what basis?
TMC Towcester
QUOTE (Tomi1921 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 15:18) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 15:10) *
Most likely a conditional offer of a fixed penalty 6 points and i think £300 or if court then the points will be the same but fine and costs might be higher

^ contradicts what the officer who pulled me up stated, all he said was 3 points, there was no mention of having to also pay a fine huh.gif

Who and how is it decided whether it goes to court? On what basis?


You, if you want a hearing or plead NG. The CPS if 6 points would mean you have 12 or more and thus at risk of a ban.
666
QUOTE (Tomi1921 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 15:18) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 15:10) *
Most likely a conditional offer of a fixed penalty 6 points and i think £300 or if court then the points will be the same but fine and costs might be higher

^ contradicts what the officer who pulled me up stated, all he said was 3 points, there was no mention of having to also pay a fine huh.gif

Who and how is it decided whether it goes to court? On what basis?

You're the one to decide! If you accept the conditional offer, pay the fine and submit your licence that will be the end of the matter.

If you don't, it goes to court. Still six points but income-related fine, prosecution costs and victim surcharge.
Tomi1921
So the police officer who pulled me up was wrong! Great! How on earth could he have got it so wrong!?

So it'll be 6 points and a £300 fine via the conditional offer route?
Glacier2
Yes.
Tomi1921
Ok thank you all for clarifying, although its not what i wanted to hear sad.gif
The Rookie
Yes he got it wrong, it offers you no benefit at all that he did I'm afraid.

The old adage is never ask a copper for legal advice and now you know why.
Tomi1921
Lesson learnt! I was under the impression it was his decision to decide what the penalty would be! Hence him saying 3 points. Clearly that wasn't the case!
southpaw82
Even if it were his decision he can’t validly offer you a penalty below the minimum prescribed by law for the offence.
Jlc
Special Reasons Not To Endorse?
IanJohnsonWS14
QUOTE (Tomi1921 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 14:57) *
Lesson learnt! I was under the impression it was his decision to decide what the penalty would be! Hence him saying 3 points. Clearly that wasn't the case!


We are not in Mega City One where Judges (e.g. Dredd) ride big motorcycles and dispense judgement on the streets - yet. The police catch miscreants and set them before a court where (if found guilty) they are sentenced.
TMC Towcester
QUOTE (IanJohnsonWS14 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 17:36) *
QUOTE (Tomi1921 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 14:57) *
Lesson learnt! I was under the impression it was his decision to decide what the penalty would be! Hence him saying 3 points. Clearly that wasn't the case!


We are not in Mega City One where Judges (e.g. Dredd) ride big motorcycles and dispense judgement on the streets - yet. The police catch miscreants and set them before a court where (if found guilty) they are sentenced.


Shame, but true!!
NewJudge
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 17:02) *
Special Reasons Not To Endorse?

I would suggest not. Lots of partnerships rely on one party to insure a vehicle. It's up to the other to be sure cover is in place.
Jlc
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 18:09) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 17:02) *
Special Reasons Not To Endorse?

I would suggest not.

Long shot I know but if the OP held a reasonable belief that insurance was in place? i.e. it's somebody else's responsibility to ensure cover is in place and there was no reason to suspect it wasn't...
notmeatloaf
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 16:23) *
Even if it were his decision he can’t validly offer you a penalty below the minimum prescribed by law for the offence.

"I could do you for xxx but I'll give you a ticket for yyy instead."

Back when I was young and (more) foolish I got pulled by an unmarked car for some very stupid driving. After an old fashioned bollocking and me almost needing a new pair of trousers he gave me a bus lane ticket "because they don't have points".

Probably the event that changed my driving the most despite being "let off".
Logician
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 17:11) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 18:09) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 17:02) *
Special Reasons Not To Endorse?

I would suggest not.

Long shot I know but if the OP held a reasonable belief that insurance was in place? i.e. it's somebody else's responsibility to ensure cover is in place and there was no reason to suspect it wasn't...


I think not, there is the special case that an employee can rely on an assurance by his employer and will not be guilty, courts have found special reasons not to endorse where a child relied on his parent's assurance that he was insured, but I do not think that would stretch to a partner.
In general an honest but mistaken belief that insurance is in force will not provide a defence.
cp8759
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 21:43) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 16:23) *
Even if it were his decision he can’t validly offer you a penalty below the minimum prescribed by law for the offence.

"I could do you for xxx but I'll give you a ticket for yyy instead."

Only if you've committed both offences. Otherwise you could challenge the ticket for yyy as unlawful (once the prosecution deadline for xxx has passed).
notmeatloaf
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 23:23) *
Only if you've committed both offences. Otherwise you could challenge the ticket for yyy as unlawful (once the prosecution deadline for xxx has passed).

I imagine if you were to look a gift horse in the mouth then they could still prosecute as you were still warned at the side of the road you could be prosecuted for the actual offence.

As it was I couldn't write the cheque fast enough.
andy_foster
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 23:23) *
Only if you've committed both offences. Otherwise you could challenge the ticket for yyy as unlawful (once the prosecution deadline for xxx has passed).


How would you do that? Wait 6 months and the seek a Judicial Review (neither promptly nor in any case within 3 months)?
Jlc
QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 23:20) *
In general an honest but mistaken belief that insurance is in force will not provide a defence.

Not a defence - SRNTE?
cp8759
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 13 May 2021 - 00:17) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 12 May 2021 - 23:23) *
Only if you've committed both offences. Otherwise you could challenge the ticket for yyy as unlawful (once the prosecution deadline for xxx has passed).


How would you do that? Wait 6 months and the seek a Judicial Review (neither promptly nor in any case within 3 months)?

No, write to the local inspector and ask for the FPN to be rescinded (which in itself can be done, I've helped an OP successfully do that in the past).

If the police refuse, you then seek a JR of that decision.
andy_foster
When would you write to the local inspector? Before or after the FPN had been registered as a fine after the end of the suspended enforcement period?
cp8759
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 13 May 2021 - 12:42) *
When would you write to the local inspector? Before or after the FPN had been registered as a fine after the end of the suspended enforcement period?

As I said, after the six month time period for the original offence has expired. The FPN would be paid promptly, but none of this prevents the police cancelling it and issuing a refund.
TonyS
Would it be an FPN rather than a conditional offer?
Tomi1921
At what point do I need to inform my insurance company regarding the offence? do I wait for the conditional offer to come through?, send my license to DVLA for them put the points on and then inform the insurance company?
The Rookie
Read your policy, it will tell you. We can’t answer as we can’t see YOUR policy.
Tomi1921
This is all I can find...

It is an offence to make a false statement or to withhold information, to obtain a Certificate of Motor Insurance.

You should tell us immediately of any alteration to the details you have declared on this Statement of Fact. Failure to provide the relevant details in respect of all questions may result in your policy being made void with no refund of premium allowed and any claim being declined. If you are in any doubt as to whether certain facts are relevant or not, please ask us.
roythebus
So there's the answer, phone them and ask. don't ask and you risk committing the same offence again.
TMC Towcester
QUOTE (Tomi1921 @ Sat, 15 May 2021 - 19:30) *
This is all I can find...

It is an offence to make a false statement or to withhold information, to obtain a Certificate of Motor Insurance.

You should tell us immediately of any alteration to the details you have declared on this Statement of Fact. Failure to provide the relevant details in respect of all questions may result in your policy being made void with no refund of premium allowed and any claim being declined. If you are in any doubt as to whether certain facts are relevant or not, please ask us.


There's a big clue in the word 'immediately'!!
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