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romy1377
Hello All

Same location and almost same story

as http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=133860

I have attached the GIF of my red vehicle.
I am not sure about the Graffiti thing on the sign board this time as appealed by someone previously in the above thread.

PCN : http://is.am/4jym

SITUATION: Straight ahead I saw traffic built up rapidly and there is no FILTER RIGHT meaning there is only chance for 2 vehicles to move out of the Queue for each signal.
From the video you can see, traffic coming to halt. Even, a Van followed me.

http://is.am/4jyk

https://imgflip.com/gif/5jcpml

I did not had to turn right and saw that there s no one in the left lane though the signal is GREEN, which made me get into the end of bus lane and I was able to exit the junction signal in green.

It makes no point to me why I would have to wait for 3-4 GREEN SIGNALS to appear, wait for people to turn right and then move to left and go STRAIGHT ahead....
when I could exit the way I did as the left lane was clear.

KINDLY LET ME KNOW if I have a chance of appeal.

Many thanks in advance.
The Rookie
I've asked a Mod' to move this to the council forum for you.
romy1377
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 10:30) *
Hello All

Same location and almost same story

as http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=133860

I have attached the GIF of my red vehicle.
I am not sure about the Graffiti thing on the sign board this time as appealed by someone previously in the above thread.

PCN : http://is.am/4jym

SITUATION: Straight ahead I saw traffic built up rapidly and there is no FILTER RIGHT meaning there is only chance for 2 vehicles to move out of the Queue for each signal.
From the video you can see, traffic coming to halt. Even, a Van followed me.

http://is.am/4jyk

https://imgflip.com/gif/5jcpml

I did not had to turn right and saw that there s no one in the left lane though the signal is GREEN, which made me get into the end of bus lane and I was able to exit the junction signal in green.

It makes no point to me why I would have to wait for 3-4 GREEN SIGNALS to appear, wait for people to turn right and then move to left and go STRAIGHT ahead....
when I could exit the way I did as the left lane was clear.

KINDLY LET ME KNOW if I have a chance of appeal.

Many thanks in advance.



I am not 100% sure of the FILTER RIGHT ,,, but, I think the traffic got blocked at the junction and the vehicles that should go right were not moving though the signal was green because the junction might have got blocked from oncoming vehicles.
rosturra
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 10:30) *
I ...saw that there s no one in the left lane though the signal is GREEN.


You mean:

There were no buses in the bus lane.

QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 10:30) *
It makes no point to me why I would have to wait for 3-4 GREEN SIGNALS to appear, wait for people to turn right and then move to left and go STRAIGHT ahead....
when I could exit the way I did as the left lane was clear.



The reason there was a queue of cars in front of you, is that they got there before you... and they, correctly, stayed out of the bus lane.

As you had a clear advantage in undertaking them - at least three and none of them indicating to go right - any chance of a de-minimus defence is fanciful, in my opinion.











romy1377
QUOTE (rosturra @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 11:00) *
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 10:30) *
I ...saw that there s no one in the left lane though the signal is GREEN.


You mean:

There were no buses in the bus lane.


ANSWER : I mean there are No vehicles in the left lane just after the bus stop where the bus lane ends,,,,,,,My exit is clear and the signal was Green.

QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 10:30) *
It makes no point to me why I would have to wait for 3-4 GREEN SIGNALS to appear, wait for people to turn right and then move to left and go STRAIGHT ahead....
when I could exit the way I did as the left lane was clear.



The reason there was a queue of cars in front of you, is that they got there before you... and they, correctly, stayed out of the bus lane.

As you had a clear advantage in undertaking them - at least three and none of them indicating to go right - any chance of a de-minimus defence is fanciful, in my opinion.

rosturra
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 11:17) *
ANSWER : I mean there are No vehicles in the left lane just after the bus stop where the bus lane ends,,,,,,,My exit is clear and the signal was Green.


What difference do you think this makes to the contravention?

It might have helped , if you were adjacent to the bus stop, when you entered bus lane.
Or there was only one car ahead of you, which was indicating right.

But you sailed past (at least) 3 cars, at least 30 yards before bus stop.
The Rookie
There is no chance of an appeal succeeding based on the driving, while it may seem illogical you are required to wait.

There may be a chance of a technical appeal but we would need to be able to see all the PCN for that.
romy1377
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 11:29) *
There is no chance of an appeal succeeding based on the driving, while it may seem illogical you are required to wait.

There may be a chance of a technical appeal but we would need to be able to see all the PCN for that.


Thank you for checking.
Here is the Full PCN

http://is.am/4jyn
http://is.am/4jyr
http://is.am/4jyq
http://is.am/4jys

PASTMYBEST
Two hopes. None and Bob

Pay the discount what you did is exactly what the restriction is designed to stop
romy1377
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Aug 2021 - 13:16) *
Two hopes. None and Bob

Pay the discount what you did is exactly what the restriction is designed to stop


Thanks for reply.
Do I appeal and pay ( No charge for appeal and still discount applicable after decision )
OR
pay straightaway?

sam4145
It's always worth appealing first if only to delay making the (same amount) payment. Plus you never know - I've had some ridiculous appeals succeed in my time. I got a J34 in the post today too, hoping someone can advise on signage and bus gate status. biggrin.gif
Incandescent
My view, having looked at the video, is you have as much chance as a snowman in hell of winning any appeal. You deliberately moved out of the traffic lane into the bus lane and drover past all the other vehicles !

If you take the council all the way to London Tribunals, it is with the full PCN penalty in play. Of course you have the legal right to do this, and it is your money not ours at stake.
cp8759
You can challenge the PCN on the basis that they have to prove their camera is:

a) prescribed, and
b) approved

See Karine Reinton v London Borough of Bromley (2210250967, 06 July 2021) https://bit.ly/3dQvhSQ

There is no reason to believe Barking & Dagenham would be any more successful than Bromley on this point. If the video is not admissible, it doesn't matter what it shows.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 10:37) *
You can challenge the PCN on the basis that they have to prove their camera is:

a) prescribed, and
b) approved

See Karine Reinton v London Borough of Bromley (2210250967, 06 July 2021) https://bit.ly/3dQvhSQ

There is no reason to believe Barking & Dagenham would be any more successful than Bromley on this point. If the video is not admissible, it doesn't matter what it shows.


Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

Any chance for you to kindly help me with that.
I would be so grateful for your help.

Many thanks

QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 17:27) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 10:37) *
You can challenge the PCN on the basis that they have to prove their camera is:

a) prescribed, and
b) approved

See Karine Reinton v London Borough of Bromley (2210250967, 06 July 2021) https://bit.ly/3dQvhSQ

There is no reason to believe Barking & Dagenham would be any more successful than Bromley on this point. If the video is not admissible, it doesn't matter what it shows.


Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

Any chance for you to kindly help me with that.
I would be so grateful for your help.

Many thanks


Also, How do I identify myself to the council?

I am named driver on the vehicle and keeper of the vehicle is my spouse.
the NTK arrived on my spouse name.

Thanks.
romy1377
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 17:31) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 10:37) *
You can challenge the PCN on the basis that they have to prove their camera is:

a) prescribed, and
b) approved

See Karine Reinton v London Borough of Bromley (2210250967, 06 July 2021) https://bit.ly/3dQvhSQ


Can anybody advise please ? about how I should identify myself to the council when I appeal to them.
As a driver of the vehicle at the time of incident ? because I am mot the owner of the car.
There is no reason to believe Barking & Dagenham would be any more successful than Bromley on this point. If the video is not admissible, it doesn't matter what it shows.


Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

Any chance for you to kindly help me with that.
I would be so grateful for your help.

Many thanks

QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 17:27) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 10:37) *
You can challenge the PCN on the basis that they have to prove their camera is:

a) prescribed, and
b) approved

See Karine Reinton v London Borough of Bromley (2210250967, 06 July 2021) https://bit.ly/3dQvhSQ

There is no reason to believe Barking & Dagenham would be any more successful than Bromley on this point. If the video is not admissible, it doesn't matter what it shows.


Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

Any chance for you to kindly help me with that.
I would be so grateful for your help.

Many thanks


Also, How do I identify myself to the council?

I am named driver on the vehicle and keeper of the vehicle is my spouse.
the NTK arrived on my spouse name.

Thanks.

Neil B
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Sat, 14 Aug 2021 - 18:32) *
Also, How do I identify myself to the council?

I am named driver on the vehicle and keeper of the vehicle is my spouse.
the NTK arrived on my spouse name.

That's an interesting question for members to discuss one day.
Since there is no actual right to challenge a London bus lane PCN they are effectively like a PCN served on the vehicle.

The owner doesn't gain the right to make representations until an Enforcement Notice is served.
Theoretically, meanwhile, anyone can make an informal challenge if the facility is made available.

But I don't want to interrupt with where cp8759 is going with this.
So only your spouse should make the challenge. All he/she need do is to sign it or, if doing it online, put his/her name and details.
romy1377
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 14 Aug 2021 - 19:14) *
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Sat, 14 Aug 2021 - 18:32) *
Also, How do I identify myself to the council?

I am named driver on the vehicle and keeper of the vehicle is my spouse.
the NTK arrived on my spouse name.

That's an interesting question for members to discuss one day.
Since there is no actual right to challenge a London bus lane PCN they are effectively like a PCN served on the vehicle.

The owner doesn't gain the right to make representations until an Enforcement Notice is served.
Theoretically, meanwhile, anyone can make an informal challenge if the facility is made available.

But I don't want to interrupt with where cp8759 is going with this.
So only your spouse should make the challenge. All he/she need do is to sign it or, if doing it online, put his/her name and details.


Thanks for your reply.
So, Can I first explain saying this is my 1st time getting into a bus lane and only got there because there was oncoming traffic which fully blocked the vehicles in my lane to turn left ,, which is why I have used end of bus lane to get into left lane to go straight ahead.... and request them to treat this as one off

If the council still decides to go ahead to penalise me, I demand that they prove that the camera which captured me is permissible according to section 4(1)

Is this how I should get my spouse to address them ?
Kindly advise please.

Many thanks.
cp8759
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 17:31) *
Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

You can use this draft http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1655617 just make sure to change the name of the council to Barking & Dagenham and make sure you keep all formatting & indentation (if appealing on the council website it's best to just make a PDF letter and upload it as an attachment).

To keep things simple, send it in your spouse's name (as long as you spouse agrees of course).
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Aug 2021 - 16:03) *
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 13 Aug 2021 - 17:31) *
Hello CP8758
Thanks for your kind reply.

How can I challenge based upon this information ?
How do I choose the wording in my reply to the council ?

You can use this draft http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1655617 just make sure to change the name of the council to Barking & Dagenham and make sure you keep all formatting & indentation (if appealing on the council website it's best to just make a PDF letter and upload it as an attachment).

To keep things simple, send it in your spouse's name (as long as you spouse agrees of course).


Hi
I have drafted my letter and received response from council that I should hear back in writing.
I received this email on August 21.
It is Sept 21 and I haven't heard back anything from them....

What are my next steps ?

please
thanks
cp8759
Wait for a response, they can take up to 2-3 months.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 09:32) *
Wait for a response, they can take up to 2-3 months.


Nothing yet,,,, it's been 3 months and still no response from council.

Not sure if I should just wait more or contact council again?

please advise. Thanks.
Incandescent
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Sun, 14 Nov 2021 - 23:49) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 09:32) *
Wait for a response, they can take up to 2-3 months.


Nothing yet,,,, it's been 3 months and still no response from council.

Not sure if I should just wait more or contact council again?

please advise. Thanks.

Check the status of the PCN on the relevant council website page. Was the address on the original postal PCN exactly the same as that on your V5 for the vehicle ?
cp8759
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 00:20) *
Check the status of the PCN on the relevant council website page. Was the address on the original postal PCN exactly the same as that on your V5 for the vehicle ?

+1, follow this advice.
romy1377
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 00:20) *
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Sun, 14 Nov 2021 - 23:49) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 09:32) *
Wait for a response, they can take up to 2-3 months.


Nothing yet,,,, it's been 3 months and still no response from council.

Not sure if I should just wait more or contact council again?

please advise. Thanks.

Check the status of the PCN on the relevant council website page. Was the address on the original postal PCN exactly the same as that on your V5 for the vehicle ?


Hello,
Thanks for reply.

The PCN and V5C address exactly matches with each other.

Not sure how I can check the PCN status.

I have logged on to https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/ > Entered PCN number and Registration number > I see Payment and Challenge options >
Upon clicking Payment, it shows as " There is an outstanding fine of £130.00 for this Penalty Charge Notice. "
Upon clicking Challenge > It shows me the options to Challenge ( Which I used earlier to challenge the PCN and received acknowledgement from council )

On the council website > I cam across a section which says , " Challenging a PCN
If you think you have been given a parking ticket by mistake, you can contest it. Before challenging a PCN you should view the supporting evidence.

If you do not pay or contest the PCN, you will receive further notices and may be contacted by certified enforcement agents.

We aim to respond to challenges & representations as soon as possible, but this could take up to 56 days in some instances. "

56 days have passed already from the date 22 Aug, 2021 i.e, when I received email from council saying, """" Thank you for submitting your challenge which has been sent to Parking Services for consideration and response.

You will be informed of the outcome in writing. """.

I am sure I haven't missed any posts and I haven't received anything so far.


Kindly advise my next course of action please.

Thank you.
Incandescent
Seems OK. Some councils are really dozy and Covid19 hadn't helped. If you get a Charge Certificate let us know immediately
cp8759
If you don't get a reply by 22 November you'll have a ground of appeal on the basis of undue delay, so let's hope you don't hear from them until next month. For now all you can do is wait.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 22:37) *
If you don't get a reply by 22 November you'll have a ground of appeal on the basis of undue delay, so let's hope you don't hear from them until next month. For now all you can do is wait.


Hi,
It is 23rd Nov 2021 and I have not received any reply so far.

Could you please share any thread relating to undue delay, which I can refer to ?
What is going to happen if the council decides to contact me anytime from now ? How are we going to defend this?
Kindly let me know.

Thanks for all help
cp8759
If you receive a Notice of Rejection you can appeal to the tribunal on the basis of excessive delay. These are examples of cases won on this ground:

Jose Luis Aguilar v London Borough of Newham (217042413A, 26 October 2017) http://bit.ly/2QvGj2O
Sajid sheikh Sheikh v London Borough of Newham (2210068103, 18 March 2021) http://bit.ly/2PjGYYA
Md Jahangir Alam v London Borough of Newham (2210098691, 16 April 2021) https://bit.ly/3dEoThF

If a Notice of Rejection turns up, let us know and we'll guide you through the next steps.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Nov 2021 - 18:47) *
If you receive a Notice of Rejection you can appeal to the tribunal on the basis of excessive delay. These are examples of cases won on this ground:

Jose Luis Aguilar v London Borough of Newham (217042413A, 26 October 2017) http://bit.ly/2QvGj2O
Sajid sheikh Sheikh v London Borough of Newham (2210068103, 18 March 2021) http://bit.ly/2PjGYYA
Md Jahangir Alam v London Borough of Newham (2210098691, 16 April 2021) https://bit.ly/3dEoThF

If a Notice of Rejection turns up, let us know and we'll guide you through the next steps.


Hello CP8759

I hope you are doing well.

I have checked the PCN status today out of curiosity > It is still showing me a button PAYMENT and another button APPEAL > When I click PAYMENT > it is showing as I owe £130.

But, I have not received any letter from the council so far in reply to my APPEAL. It's been 6 months now.

I am worried if the council would come back with a CCJ after 3-4 years saying they have a record of sending me a letter cancelling my appeal.

How do I protect myself ?
What will be my defense ?

Kindly advise please.

Many thanks.
cp8759
A PCN cannot result in a CCJ so don't worry about that.

If you want to force their hand you could make a formal complaint about the delay.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 3 Mar 2022 - 14:12) *
A PCN cannot result in a CCJ so don't worry about that.

If you want to force their hand you could make a formal complaint about the delay.


Hello @cp8759

I have today received challenge rejection.
Almost 11 months after my formal appeal.

I am provided option of discounted oayment £65 if paid within 14 days.
If appealing, wait for Enforcement Notice.

What do I do ?

kindly help please.

thanks
cp8759
1000% wait for the Enforcement Notice.

Also show us the rejection please.

We have a 100% success rate at winning these at the tribunal on the camera authorisation ground, and a 100% success rate at winning all appeals based on the delay. If you take this all the way and follow our guidance, basically you cannot lose.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 30 Jun 2022 - 20:43) *
1000% wait for the Enforcement Notice.

Also show us the rejection please.

We have a 100% success rate at winning these at the tribunal on the camera authorisation ground, and a 100% success rate at winning all appeals based on the delay. If you take this all the way and follow our guidance, basically you cannot lose.


Thanks for your reply @CP8759
I am worried.
Please find the rejection notice

https://ibb.co/84Y9f7q

https://ibb.co/Wv29tWQ

Do I have a chance still ?
What am I supposed to do after receiving Enforcement notice ?

Am I required to go to a court ?

Kindly advise next course of actions please 🙏🏻

cheers
cp8759
There is no court, these matters are dealt with at London Tribunals, it's fairly informal and you don't need to attend, I can represent you.

These are the last few bus lane cases I've dealt with:

Fahmim Chowdhury v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2210847074, 25 April 2022): https://bit.ly/3xSKqxL
Nahid Hossen v London Borough of Lambeth (2210860888, 01 June 2022): https://bit.ly/3M2ZqNC
Nazma Yaqoob v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2220271919, 13 June 2022): https://bit.ly/3Ob5J2u
Adrian Fernandez v London Borough of Barnet (2220294867, 13 June 2022): https://bit.ly/3xvaEop

When you receive the enforcement notice, just make the same representation again. When they reject it, we will help you with the tribunal appeal and add your case to this list of victories.

Your case is particularly strong because as well as the camera issue, you also have the unreasonable delay in dealing with your representations, and a failure to consider in the rejection.

I am 100% sure that you will win if you carry on.
romy1377
Thanks @cp8759

sent you a dm.

Please check.

Kindly let me know how I can get you to represent my case.

So, my next course of action is to wait for Enforcement Notice.
right !

cheers.
cp8759
QUOTE (romy1377 @ Fri, 1 Jul 2022 - 11:39) *
Thanks @cp8759

sent you a dm.

Please check.

Kindly let me know how I can get you to represent my case.

So, my next course of action is to wait for Enforcement Notice.
right !

cheers.

I've not received a PM from you?

Yes your next step is to wait for the enforcement notice.
Schofeldt
Any update on this case?
cp8759
Never heard back from romy1377.
Schofeldt
Probably another member of The Mugged Club sadly?
cp8759
No, he's just not received the EN yet. The council has until 9 February 2022 to serve an Enforcement Notice.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 7 Dec 2022 - 22:55) *
No, he's just not received the EN yet. The council has until 9 February 2022 to serve an Enforcement Notice.


Hi
Never received an EN as of Dec 7 2022
so,
Do I just forget about this and carry on living my life ?
Thanks @cp8759 for support.
please advise.
cheers
cp8759
Put a reminder in your calendar to check the PCN amount on the council website on 10 February, and let us know if you get anything in the post before then.
Neil B
I don't think you ever gave us the PCN number and VRM?
We need them to check the current status
Schofeldt
Having read the last couple of posts, my apologies for my post, if it has caused any offence. But I did put a ? at the end. I am sure the OP will succeed following cp's advice. wink.gif
romy1377
hi @cp8759

I have address change plans by end of Jan, 2023
What do I do now ?
do I update the council saying here is my new address lol
Kindly advise.

Also, as you have suggested before to check status in feb, what is the significance of Feb 10th !

please let me know.
Many thanks for all help.

cheers
cp8759
Are you going to make any arrangements for post to be forwarded or redirected?

The significance of 10 February is that section 7 of the London Local Authorities Act 2000 imposes a six month time limit for service of an Enforcement Notice, the PCN was issued 9 August so if nothing has been served by 10 February, it's then too late and anything that arrives can be challenged as being out of time.
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 01:01) *
Are you going to make any arrangements for post to be forwarded or redirected?

The significance of 10 February is that section 7 of the London Local Authorities Act 2000 imposes a six month time limit for service of an Enforcement Notice, the PCN was issued 9 August so if nothing has been served by 10 February, it's then too late and anything that arrives can be challenged as being out of time.


The PCN was issued in Aug 2021,
so, well over 1 year.
cp8759
Ah, how time flies when you're having fun!
romy1377
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 5 Jan 2023 - 00:19) *
Ah, how time flies when you're having fun!


yeah, what is my best next course of action ?
please suggest.
Neil B
What is the current status showing online? i.e. the amount due?
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