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rsg444
Hi all,

My mum received a PCN today from Redbridge Council for parking her car in a disabled bay on a public road. When she returned to the car, she saw a PCN affixed to the windscreen and then saw that her blue badge was on the passenger floor mat so had slipped off at some point after parking her car.

Are there grounds to appeal? I'm thinking showing photos of the badge visible on the floor (albeit face down) but you can clearly see it is a blue badge. The badge is in date, she is the registered keeper and only insured driver too.

I've tried to look up the PCN on the website but nothing is coming up - I suspect it's too new perhaps?

Here is the PCN:

https://ibb.co/k2NPxZ1

Any advice, as always is much appreciated.
stamfordman
Check later for council pics - CEO may have spotted it on floor. All you can do is make a polite challenge saying it slipped off and enclose a pic of the BB.

Any reason why this happened?
rsg444
No idea, the dashboard does slope backwards but this hasn't happened to her before - car might have been nudged perhaps while it was parked - no obvious signs of damage though if this is the case.
rsg444
So, the pictures are up and the CEO has not included any pictures of the Blue Badge on the floor. My mum is going to appeal with the following - Does it seem ok?:

Dear Redbridge,

RE PCN: XXX

On 24/02/2022, I received a PCN for the alleged contravention of parking in a designated disabled bay.

I was surprised to receive this as when I parked my vehicle I had clearly displayed my blue badge and accompanying clock (set to the correct time). I suffer from arthritis which restricts my mobility, which is why I have been issued with a blue badge.

When I noticed the PCN on the windscreen I then noticed that my blue badge had slipped back into the passenger foot well. I'm not sure how this happened, it could be that due to my restricted mobility I may not been able to push the badge far enough towards the windscreen, or another vehicle parking near my car may have nudged the car causing it to fall back - I'm not sure but what I do know is that I had definitely displayed the badge correctly.

Being a blue badge holder, I fully appreciate why the bays need to be enforced so that people like me who need them can use them. In this instance, someone who needed the bay did use it - so there was no attempt to take unfair advantage of the parking bay.

Furthermore, I am the Registered Keeper and the only person insured to drive the car so it wasn't case of someone else driving and parking my car in a disabled bay. I enclose a copy of my blue badge, motor insurance certificate and photographs of the blue badge in the passenger foot well taken immediately after I saw that the PCN had been issued.

I would be grateful if you could exercise discretion in this instance and cancel the PCN.

I reiterate, there was no intention to unfairly use the bay, I had displayed my badge and clock and had placed them on the dashboard and checked that they were in view when I locked and left my vehicle.

Yours,
cp8759
Looks fine to me. Obviously send a copy of the blue badge.
rsg444
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 28 Feb 2022 - 23:06) *
Looks fine to me. Obviously send a copy of the blue badge.


Thank you! Sending response and documents today.
rsg444
Hi all,

Redbridge have rejected the appeal:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN): AF
Vehicle Registration: -
Thank you for your letter regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice, your comments are noted.
The details of the notice have been checked and I conclude that the notice was issued correctly.
The details of the notice have been checked and found to be valid. As you did not display your
disabled badge at the time, the ticket cannot be cancelled. Photographs were taken, which I
have enclosed.
On this basis the Penalty Charge must be paid, if paid within fourteen days from the date on this
letter the reduced rate of £55.00 will be accepted. After this point the full charge of £110.00 will
become due.
If you do not wish to accept this decision you are able to appeal further to the Councils Parking
Appeals section. To do this you must wait for a Notice to Owner to be sent to the registered
keeper of the vehicle at the full charge of £110.00. Once this has been received you will be
required to follow the instructions given to make a formal representation.
Should your representation be rejected you will be sent a form to appeal to the Independent
Adjudicator, whose decision is final.
Yours faithfully"

Do I have any grounds - I explained that it was displayed and checked before I left the vehicle, sent a copy of the badge, a photo of it on the floor. Should I wait for the NTO?
stamfordman
I think I would go on with this as they have said they cannot cancel and have not considered discretion and the explanation that you did display but it slipped off.

It's a just a template rejection really.

This is what gives parking departments a bad name and they need to be reminded of their duty to consider especially for a BB holder.

See what others say.
cp8759
Definitely carry on, especially for a BB holder the tribunal is not going to accept that there has been any proper consideration of the representations made. That rejection shows an unlawful fettering of discretion, clear as day.
rsg444
Thank you Stamford and CP. I'll advise mum to pursue this.

I assume there are mechanisms in place for the council to be reasonable? She always doubles checks to see the badge is displayed and this instance it was no different.
hcandersen

My mum received a PCN today from Redbridge Council for parking her car in a disabled bay on a public road.

I explained that it was displayed and checked before I left the vehicle,


OP pl be clear and consistent: your mother was driving, she is the RK and will have to submit any reps, yes?

IMO, wait for the NTO.

I would be grateful if you could exercise discretion in this instance and cancel the PCN.

Is the key element of the challenge and should similarly feature in reps.

I parked, I placed my BB(copy enclosed), I was surprised to see the PCN but could fully understand why when I looked inside my car and saw that the BB had fallen into the passenger footwell. Although this was visible from outside the car, none of the details was clear.

I would nonetheless ask the authority on this, my first occasion*, to cancel the PCN by exercising its discretion.

Would be my take.

*- if true.
stamfordman
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 1 Apr 2022 - 09:25) *
I assume there are mechanisms in place for the council to be reasonable?


They have a duty to consider representations and are bound by government fairness guidance. The rejection shows no such consideration.
rsg444
Ok thank you both.

Yes she will send reps, she's the only insured driver and RK and the BB holder. Yes this is the first time this has happened to her.

We will wait for the NTO, when that arrives I'll draft something on here on her behalf for feedback if that's ok.

Many thanks.
cp8759
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 1 Apr 2022 - 09:25) *
I assume there are mechanisms in place for the council to be reasonable?

The ultimate mechanism is that if they unreasonable you can appeal to the tribunal, which on the whole is fair and is wholly independent of the council. Not saying that tribunal adjudicators are infallible, they're not, but they're not on the council's side either.
rsg444
Mum just received the NTO:

https://ibb.co/BGSKytZ
https://ibb.co/ch7HsYR
https://ibb.co/cTgyB2V
https://ibb.co/mTZB6J9

I'm thinking of Reps for Proc Imp- They didn't consider any points in the informal challenge - is this OK?

Reps along the lines of - similar to the initial challenge:

Dear Redbridge,

RE PCN: XXX

On 24/02/2022, I received a PCN for the alleged contravention of parking in a designated disabled bay. When I noticed the PCN on the windscreen I was shocked as I had correctly displayed my valid blue badge and accompanying clock (set to the correct time) on the dash however, I then noticed that my blue badge had slipped back into the passenger foot well. I'm not sure how this happened, it could be that due to my restricted mobility (I suffer from arthritis which restricts my mobility, which is why I have been issued with a blue badge), I may not been able to push the badge far enough towards the windscreen, or another vehicle parking near my car may have nudged the car causing it to fall back - I'm not sure but what I do know is that I had definitely displayed the badge correctly before I walked away from my vehicle. I have a habit of double checking the badge after I've locked the car and walk away and I did do so in this case.

Being a blue badge holder, I fully appreciate why the bays need to be enforced so that people like me who need them can use them. In this instance, someone who needed the bay did use it - so there was no attempt to take unfair advantage of the parking bay.

Furthermore, I am the Registered Keeper and the only person insured to drive the car so it wasn't case of someone else driving and parking my car in a disabled bay. I enclose a copy of my blue badge, motor insurance certificate and photographs of the blue badge in the passenger foot well taken immediately after I saw that the PCN had been issued.

The reason for these representations is because in my initial appeal that you rejected, you did not provide any answer in relation to what I had written, there was no response to my statement that I had clearly displayed a valid blue badge - you failed to consider the point I had made leading to Procedural Impropriety.

In addition to this, the Statutory Guidance states that an Enforcement Authority must not fetter discretion - in this case, I have explained that I did correctly display a valid blue badge, I provided you with pictures of the badge that had fallen into the foot well, I provided you with evidence of my valid blue badge, I offered my car insurance certificate to show that I am the only permitted driver yet you took no consideration of any of this and ignored the fact that this is the first time this has happened to me yet refused to cancel the PCN. I ask, what is the purpose of enforcement - it is to stop drivers not entitled to use the bays from doing so - I have provided you with proof that I was indeed entitled yet you showed no discretion and responded with a generic rejection letter.

In view of the above, please duly cancel the PCN.
cp8759
I'm minded say you should to leave out the procedural impropriety stuff. If they send the same nonsense again you can argue a procedural impropriety at the tribunal stage. You also don't want to tell the council they've done anything wrong, as you're asking them to be nice and let you off.

If you argue a procedural impropriety now, you risk them sending you back a rejection saying that they understand everything you've said, have considered your representations and photographic evidence but nonetheless wish to enforce the penalty. That would mean you can't argue a procedural impropriety in the formal Notice of Rejection, and while that decision would be very harsh it would not be one the tribunal would be able to interfere with, as discretion is not something the adjudicator can consider.

If you just go with what you sent last time on the other hand, you'll either get a Notice of Acceptance, or in all likelihood a Notice of Rejection that includes a failure to consider.
stamfordman
Yes you need to leave some of that out and make it shorter. I'll see if I have time over w/e to suggest changes. There is no hurry.
rsg444
Thanks you, I see the approach now - my suggestion was def Gung Ho!

If there are any suggestions they'd be gratefully received.
Gert
The insurance bit is over-egged. Any fully comp driver can drive the vehicle. I know what you want to convey but it could come across as "protesting too much".
DancingDad
Leave out all the PI bits.... time enough for them later if needed.

Nice and gentle, little bit apologetic and include the words "please exercise your discretion"....key phrase if they ignore
stamfordman
Post a new draft and we'll check it later. Am on a work deadline next 2 days but will have a look.
rsg444
Thank you for your suggestions. I'm going to send this off on behalf of my Mum before she or I forget to do it. Incidentally, I checked the PCN online and the NTO says she owes £110 but the website says £50 is owed...very odd.

I'd be grateful if someone could review the Reps below and provide any feedback. Many thanks in advance:

Dear Redbridge,

RE PCN: XXX

On 24/02/2022, I received a PCN for the alleged contravention of parking in a designated disabled bay.

I was surprised to receive this as when I parked my vehicle I had clearly displayed my blue badge and accompanying clock (set to the correct time). I suffer from arthritis and am recovering from a neurological disorder which restricts my mobility, which is why I have been issued with a blue badge.
When I noticed the PCN on the windscreen, I couldn't work out why it had been issued. It was only when I sat in my car that I noticed that my blue badge had slipped back into the passenger foot well. I'm not sure how this happened, it could be that due to my restricted mobility I may not have been able to push the blue badge far enough towards the windscreen, or another vehicle parking near my car may have nudged the car causing it to fall back - I'm not sure what exactly caused the badge to fall but what I do know is that I had definitely displayed the badge correctly.
Being a blue badge holder, I fully appreciate why the bays need to be enforced so that people like me who need them can use them. In this instance, someone who needed the bay did use it - so there was no attempt to take unfair advantage of the parking bay.
The Blue Badge is very valuable for me as it aids me in my day to day living and as a result, I always take extra care to ensure that I have displayed the badge and clock correctly - this includes me checking the badge from the outside of the car to ensure clear visibility before I walk away. I am at a loss as to how the badge did not stay on the dashboard.
This is the first time I've had this happen to me and I can only offer my apologies. In this instance, I would be grateful if you could exercise discretion and cancel the PCN.
I have provided a copy of my blue badge and photographs of the blue badge in the passenger foot well taken immediately after I saw that the PCN had been issued. If you require any further information or evidence, I am happy to provide.


Yours,
cp8759
That looks fine to me.
rsg444
Thanks!
rsg444
So over the weekend my mum received a Notice of Rejection - Redbridge really are a hard ass council IMO.

The badge was displayed and checked before she left the car, when she returned there was a PCN and the blue badge was in the footwell. I'm not sure what else she could have done apart from stay in the car which is not reasonable!

What is odd is the following:

Redbridge are claiming that £60 has already been paid toward the PCN - to our knowledge it hasn't but nonetheless the balance due shows £50.

What is even more strange is that Redbridge have stated that my mum must pay the remaining balance of £50 within 14 days of the NOR being delivered and if she doesn't the PCN fee will double to £110 - are they making rules up as they go along now? Have I got grounds to take this to London Tribunals for Procedural Impropriety - firstly fettering discretion (is that even proc imp?), ignoring the points made in appeals and now suggesting that they'll double the fee to £100 even though £60 has already been paid?

NOR images below:

https://ibb.co/72nPXhD

https://ibb.co/wYVG4BB

https://ibb.co/mBJ1dVY
cp8759
Well you might as well appeal: if you lose you have to pay £50, which is what is due now but is also less than the original discounted amount. If you win the tribunal will direct the council to refund you the £60 the council claims has already been paid, so you'll end up with a profit.

The Notice of Rejection looks like a clear failure to consider, give others a day or two to comment but at the moment I'm minded to say that you should appeal based on the principles outlined in Susan Cook v Trafford Borough Council (TR 05993K, 25 January 2013) http://bit.ly/2TvixZ0
stamfordman
I agree - go for the eppeal.

I would be sufficiently annoyed at the lack of consideration of a BB holder and the Cook case is a great backdrop.

They have probably put in payment from someone's else's letter by mistake but the tribunal will take a dim view if they backtrack from the rejection letter.

A good chance they won't contest.
PASTMYBEST
There is a PI within the NOR. They use the term (delivered to describe the date of service)

what date was it received and what date do you think is the date by which you must appeal. IMO you must for if they discover their error re the payment then you would have no avenue to argue against any increased charge
rsg444
Thank you all, I will draft up an appeal - Thanks again, really appreciate your input and time.
cp8759
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 16:10) *
Thank you all, I will draft up an appeal - Thanks again, really appreciate your input and time.

Put a draft on here before submitting it.
rsg444
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 17:10) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 16:10) *
Thank you all, I will draft up an appeal - Thanks again, really appreciate your input and time.

Put a draft on here before submitting it.


Thank you, will do.
rsg444
Hi all, is this ok? Many thanks!

***


Dear London Tribunals,

RE: PCN xxx vrm xxx

On 24th February 2022, I parked my vehicle VRM xxx at Westminster Gardens IG6 in a parking bay allocated to Blue Badge holders. As I am a Blue Badge holder, I set my Blue Badge to the correct time and displayed it on the passenger side of the dashboard. I exited the car and then checked to see if the badge was visible. It was clearly visible so I locked the car and left.

On returning to my vehicle, I noticed that a PCN had been affixed to the windscreen, I was confused as to why I had received it. I checked the bay signage and confirmed it was indeed a bay allocated to Blue Badge holders - in other words, I had not made a mistake. Once I sat in the car, I noticed that my Blue Badge was in the passenger foot well so I realised why the PCN had been issued.

I appealed to Redbridge Council and sent them pictures of my valid Blue Badge along with photos of the Blue Badge in the foot well that I had taken on the day. I also explained that I was the only insured driver of the vehicle and was willing to send a copy of my Insurance certificate to confirm the fact.

I was disappointed to receive a letter stating that the PCN appeal had been rejected. The letter failed to make any reference to my point about the badge having fallen down. In my opinion, while I agree there is absolutely a need to enforce parking, especially for bays allocated to Blue Badge users, I felt it was very harsh of Redbridge Council to insist that my Blue Badge had not been displayed correctly and therefore concluding that the PCN was valid. From my perspective, I had clearly displayed my Blue Badge and had set it to the correct time. The Blue Badge was in date and not damaged so there would be no reason for me not to display it. I even checked the vehicle before I walked away - however in the time that followed, something caused the badge to slip back and fall into the passenger foot well. This is something that I had no control over and therefore in my opinion it was unreasonable for Redbridge Council to insist that I had not displayed a Blue Badge.

I awaited the Notice To Owner and then submitted formal representations, again stating my case as I had done in my initial appeal I asked Redbridge Council if they could exercise discretion in this instance as, this had not happened to me before and I was in possession of a valid Blue Badge that Redbridge Council themselves had issued. I also explained that I was not attempting to gain any unfair advantage by using the bay.

On 20/06/2022 I received a Notice of Rejection from Redbridge Council. The letter failed to consider any of the points I had made in my representation. The letter went on to say that £60 had already been paid towards the PCN and that I had several options, one of which being:

"Pay the outstanding amount of £50 within 14 days of the date this letter was served (the date it was delivered) after this point the full charge of £110 will become due".

This for me is Procedural Impropriety. If £60 has been paid, why do I have fewer days than the 28 days from when the NTO was served to clear the balance and why after 14 days do I end up losing the £60 that's already been paid?

In addition to this, I'm not sure when the letter was delivered. I was away for a week and it was when I returned home on the 25th June that I saw the letter on my doormat, therefore I am unable to ascertain when the 14 days starts from - in fact I don't even know when the 28 days starts from within which I either need to pay the balance or appeal to yourselves.

Another point I'd like to raise is that according to the guidance for local authorities as published on the government website, Enforcement authorities have a duty not to fetter their discretion. The guidance goes on to say:

"They should approach the exercise of discretion objectively and without regard to any financial interest in the penalty or decisions that may have been taken at an earlier stage in proceedings.

"Authorities should formulate (with advice from their legal department) and then publish, their policies on the exercise of discretion. They should apply these policies flexibly and judge each case on its merits. An enforcement authority should be ready to depart from its policies if the particular circumstances of the case warrant it."

In my case, the council failed to judge it by its merits as they failed consider my points - there was no reference to them in their NOR. I was not able to find any policies about their exercise of discretion.

Taking a past case, Cook v Trafford as an example, the adjudicator concluded:

"The purpose of the ticket is to evidence entitlement to park. If a driver is able to show after the event that she was entitled to park then the Council cannot reasonably hide behind a policy which punishes failure to observe the bureaucracy of the scheme as severely as failure to observe its significantly more fundamental requirement."

In my case, I had the proof of my entitlement to park and shared it with the council at the earliest opportunity but the Council opted to push for payment of the PCN without considered the points that I had made.

Regards,



cp8759
Take out the tops & tails, this isn't a letter. When you log the appeal on https://londontribunals.org.uk/ they give you a 3,000 character limit, so the best approach is to put this in a PDF and add it as an attachment:
On 24th February 2022, I parked my vehicle VRM xxx at Westminster Gardens IG6 in a parking bay allocated to Blue Badge holders. As I am a Blue Badge holder, I set my Blue Badge to the correct time and displayed it on the passenger side of the dashboard. I exited the car and then checked to see if the badge was visible. It was clearly visible so I locked the car and left.

On returning to my vehicle, I noticed that a PCN had been affixed to the windscreen, I was confused as to why I had received it. I checked the bay signage and confirmed it was indeed a bay allocated to Blue Badge holders - in other words, I had not made a mistake. Once I sat in the car, I noticed that my Blue Badge was in the passenger foot well so I realised why the PCN had been issued.

I appealed to Redbridge Council and sent them pictures of my valid Blue Badge along with photos of the Blue Badge in the foot well that I had taken on the day. I also explained that I was the only insured driver of the vehicle and was willing to send a copy of my Insurance certificate to confirm the fact.

I was disappointed to receive a letter stating that the PCN appeal had been rejected. The letter failed to make any reference to my point about the badge having fallen down, the rejection simply stated that as the blue badge was not visible to the civil enforcement officer the PCN was correctly issued and must stand. This is clearly wrong: while I never disputed that the PCN was correctly issued, I was plainly inviting the council to exercise its discretion not to enforce. The mere fact that the PCN was correctly issued is not a reason for the PCN to be upheld, on the contrary there must be a correctly issued PCN before the council can exercise discretion: if the PCN is not correctly issued discretion doesn't come into it as the council must cancel the penalty.

I awaited the Notice To Owner and then submitted formal representations, again stating my case as I had done in my initial appeal I asked Redbridge Council if they could exercise discretion in this instance as, this had not happened to me before and I was in possession of a valid Blue Badge that Redbridge Council themselves had issued. I also explained that I was not attempting to gain any unfair advantage by using the bay.

On 20 June 2022 I received a Notice of Rejection from Redbridge Council. The letter failed to consider any of the points I had made in my representation. The letter went on to say that £60 had already been paid towards the PCN and that I had several options, one of which being:

"Pay the outstanding amount of £50 within 14 days of the date this letter was served (the date it was delivered) after this point the full charge of £110 will become due".

This indicates that I had 14 days to pay £50, taking the total receipts recorded by the council for this PCN to £110; or £110 would become due, which if paid would take the total income recorded by the council for this PCN to £170, which is plainly an amount that exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

In addition to this, I'm not sure when the letter was delivered. I was away for a week and it was when I returned home on the 25th June that I saw the letter on my doormat, therefore I am unable to ascertain when the 14 days starts from - in fact I don't even know when the 28 days starts from within which I either need to pay the balance or appeal to yourselves.

Another point I'd like to raise is that according to the guidance for local authorities as published on the government website, Enforcement authorities have a duty not to fetter their discretion. The guidance goes on to say:

"They should approach the exercise of discretion objectively and without regard to any financial interest in the penalty or decisions that may have been taken at an earlier stage in proceedings.

"Authorities should formulate (with advice from their legal department) and then publish, their policies on the exercise of discretion. They should apply these policies flexibly and judge each case on its merits. An enforcement authority should be ready to depart from its policies if the particular circumstances of the case warrant it."

In my case, the council failed to judge it by its merits as they failed consider my points - there was no reference to them in their NOR. I was not able to find any policies about their exercise of discretion.

Taking a past case, Cook v Trafford as an example, the adjudicator concluded:

"The purpose of the ticket is to evidence entitlement to park. If a driver is able to show after the event that she was entitled to park then the Council cannot reasonably hide behind a policy which punishes failure to observe the bureaucracy of the scheme as severely as failure to observe its significantly more fundamental requirement."

In my case, I had the proof of my entitlement to park and shared it with the council at the earliest opportunity but the Council opted to push for payment of the PCN without considered the points that I had made. If the council could show that it had considered my points and provided a reason for refusing to exercise discretion then the tribunal would have no authority to interfere with that, but that is not the scenario here: instead the authority has stated that the PCN must stand because it was correctly issued, which is the antithesis of exercising discretion.
Request a personal hearing on any day other than Tuesday.
rsg444
Thank you so much! Really appreciate you taking the time out for this.
hcandersen
My alternative take:


I parked and as is second nature displayed my BB, but when I returned found the badge in the footwell and a PCN on the windscreen.

I cannot dispute that when the CEO checked my car they did not see a BB and therefore in their opinion an unentitled vehicle was occupying a parking place reserved to BB holders. Therefore, on the one hand I am glad that the rights of BB holders are being protected and have no complaints regarding the PCN being issued. However, what I object to and the grounds of this appeal is the procedurally improper manner in which the enforcement authority have considered my representations and the excessive penalty being demanded.

Procedural Impropriety
At no stage, including now, have I claimed that the BB was displayed when the CEO attended my car, it therefore follows that I have not challenged the grounds of the PCN itself, instead I have asked the authority to exercise discretion. Despite this, the authority state in the NOR that:

'I have noted your comments, however, as your disabled badge was not on display ....the PCN was issued correctly ad(sic) must stand.'

I contend that the highlighted phrase shows clearly that no consideration was given to the exercise of discretion(which is predicated on a contravention having been committed and a PCN issued correctly) contrary to their duty under the Appeals Regs and therefore I request that my appeal should be allowed.

Penalty Exceeded ......in the circumstances of the case
The NOR states that £60 has been paid of the full penalty of £110, it therefore follows that the only the outstanding balance may be pursued as a penalty i.e. £50.
The authority are demanding £110.



Not too certain about the second point as you acknowledge that no payment has been made - the reference to payment therefore being a typo. It could be omitted.
rsg444
Thank you HCA, the web portal shows that £60 has been paid - maybe my mum did it by mistake but she can't remember.
rsg444
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Jul 2022 - 10:48) *
Request a personal hearing on any day other than Tuesday.


Thanks again for your help, CP8759 and HCA. Can I ask, is it ok to request a postal hearing as due to my mum's mobility she's hesitant to jump on the tube to get to the Tribunals Offices - I think they're in Chancery Lane.
John U.K.
AFAIK personal hearings can still be heard over the telephone.
cp8759
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 14:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Jul 2022 - 10:48) *
Request a personal hearing on any day other than Tuesday.


Thanks again for your help, CP8759 and HCA. Can I ask, is it ok to request a postal hearing as due to my mum's mobility she's hesitant to jump on the tube to get to the Tribunals Offices - I think they're in Chancery Lane.

Personal hearings can be attended by telephone so no need to travel anywhere.
MMV Redux
I believe HCAs emphasis on the request for discretion is key.

Not only have the Council got to give enhanced consideration to anyone who is disabled under the Equality legislation but there is a "failure to consider" as to the specific request for discretion.

OP--has your Mum asked for discretion with previous PCNs?

In these cases we often pose the question to the adjudicator "what mischief has occurred?"

Disabled bays are for the sole use of people who are registered disabled and there was no mischief. Parliament never intended that people who had a right to park there should be fined and that, in reality, this was not an abuse of a disabled bay since your Mum still has the underlying condition, is a recipient of DLA and still qualifies for a Blue Badge. Second, it was never the intention to fine eligible Blue Badge holders for forgetfulness or mishap and therefore the enforcement of this charge would serve no useful purpose other than one which relates to income generation.

I would also state in the appeal that the Council has had no regard to your Mum's disability and their statutory obligation under the Equality Act to take her disability into account when considering challenges and appeals. The Council has failed to consider this issue, even though discretion was requested, and they have not explained why they think her rights under the Equality Act do not merit cancellation of the penalty charge.

Mick
rsg444
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 23:26) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 6 Jul 2022 - 14:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Jul 2022 - 10:48) *
Request a personal hearing on any day other than Tuesday.


Thanks again for your help, CP8759 and HCA. Can I ask, is it ok to request a postal hearing as due to my mum's mobility she's hesitant to jump on the tube to get to the Tribunals Offices - I think they're in Chancery Lane.

Personal hearings can be attended by telephone so no need to travel anywhere.


Thank you

QUOTE (MMV Redux @ Thu, 7 Jul 2022 - 09:19) *
I believe HCAs emphasis on the request for discretion is key.

Not only have the Council got to give enhanced consideration to anyone who is disabled under the Equality legislation but there is a "failure to consider" as to the specific request for discretion.

OP--has your Mum asked for discretion with previous PCNs?

In these cases we often pose the question to the adjudicator "what mischief has occurred?"

Disabled bays are for the sole use of people who are registered disabled and there was no mischief. Parliament never intended that people who had a right to park there should be fined and that, in reality, this was not an abuse of a disabled bay since your Mum still has the underlying condition, is a recipient of DLA and still qualifies for a Blue Badge. Second, it was never the intention to fine eligible Blue Badge holders for forgetfulness or mishap and therefore the enforcement of this charge would serve no useful purpose other than one which relates to income generation.

I would also state in the appeal that the Council has had no regard to your Mum's disability and their statutory obligation under the Equality Act to take her disability into account when considering challenges and appeals. The Council has failed to consider this issue, even though discretion was requested, and they have not explained why they think her rights under the Equality Act do not merit cancellation of the penalty charge.

Mick


Thanks for the additional point Mick - no she's never asked for discretion before. This is the first time something like this has happened.
rsg444
Hi all, we have our hearing with LT tomorrow evening. We were sent a copy of the LA's evidence last week. They made few "interesting" points, for example, in the NOR they stated that £60 had already been paid. So a balance of £50 was due, however they went on to state that the RK had 14 days to pay this £50 else £110 would be due.

Redbridge narrative for LT:

"I have noted the appellants comments with regards to the amount that was due on the formal notice of rejection. This was an administration error regarding the amount that was outstanding. It should have advised there was a balance of £50 outstanding and to be paid within 28 days and not 14 days. I am satisfied consideration was given when dealing with the informal and formal representation. When the CEO observed the vehicle, parked in the disabled bay, there was no disabled badge displayed. therefore the PCN was issued correctly. I have noted the appellants comments and mitigation however, it does remain the driver's responsibility to ensure that their disabled badge is clearly displayed before leaving the vehicle. The appeal has been considered; however, the Council is not prepared to cancel the charge, I would therefore respectfully request that this appeal be refused."


My view is that is an administrative error good enough for them to defend the fact that if the RK did not pay within 14 days, £110 would be due - in other words they'd just ignore the fact that they had a £60 payment against the PCN?

Why is an admin error OK for them but a badge falling down not OK for my mum?

They also claimed in their response that the CEO checked all the windows - well they would clearly have seen the BB on the floor had they done so.

Their final point that it is the driver's responsibility to check BB before they leave - the RK stated that they def did do this in the informal appeal and formal reps.

Are there any points that I should highlight tomorrow or things that I should avoid - never had a hearing before so a bit nervous!
stamfordman
Read HCAnderson's and MMV's posts - I would be making these points strongly about lack of consideration for BB holder and that the bay was used by someone entitled to do so.
MMV Redux
The key point you should make is:-

Discretion was requested by a Blue Badge holder and the Council has FAILED TO CONSIDER OR RESPOND to that request--that's fatal to their case. Keep it short and simple.

Mick
cp8759
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 17:41) *
Hi all, we have our hearing with LT tomorrow evening. We were sent a copy of the LA's evidence last week.

Well you could have given us a bit more notice!

To maximise your chances I would request an adjournment (a first adjournment is normally granted with no fuss) and give us a chance to go through the evidence pack, they often contain fatal mistakes.
rsg444
Sorry! I was on holiday last week so only was told about the pack today when I popped over to my mums. She doesn’t want to adjourn as it’s been hanging over her head, she just wants to get it over and done with.

But that’s pretty much what their defence is, the rest of it is just copies of the PCN, informal appeal, their response, NTO, reps, NOR and that’s it.
cp8759
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 23:17) *
But that’s pretty much what their defence is, the rest of it is just copies of the PCN, informal appeal, their response, NTO, reps, NOR and that’s it.

Case in point fresh off the press: https://bit.ly/3p6mNfy

If you can get me the evidence pack I can have a look by lunchtime tomorrow, you never know there might be something that makes it an open and shut case.
rsg444
Thank you CP, that's very kind of you.

Here is the evidence pack, however I have also added the last two images which are of the actual PCN that was attached to the car - it differs to the copy the council sent - the legislation for starters is different.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cc3oD95Jwy...iew?usp=sharing
cp8759
Well we're cutting it fine but I'm going to drop you a PM
rsg444
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 11 Aug 2022 - 10:54) *
Well we're cutting it fine but I'm going to drop you a PM


Thank you CP - just replied, hope it's gone through into your inbox.
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