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parkingluvr79
Hi there,

I received a PCN for parking in a Lambeth residential parking space that was later suspended. The timeline of events is something like this:
- I go on holiday, leaving car parked in residents bay with a valid permit, the bay is not suspended
- I come back 2.5 weeks later and find the car has a ticket on it, the bay is not suspended
- The photos taken by the council show that the bay was suspended for a period while I was away

Ticket and pictures taken by council: https://imgur.com/a/FdX3HLA

It seems unreasonable to suspend the bay after I've parked in it. Any help with this much appreciated.

Thanks!
cp8759
I'll ask for the suspension logs, in the meantime what evidence do you have about your travels? Boarding passes, passport stamps?
stamfordman
What is the date of the PCN - you've blanked it.

parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 10 Jun 2022 - 15:29) *
I'll ask for the suspension logs, in the meantime what evidence do you have about your travels? Boarding passes, passport stamps?


I have boarding passes that show I travelled abroad on the 18th of May and back on the 5th June.


QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 10 Jun 2022 - 16:02) *
What is the date of the PCN - you've blanked it.


The date of PCN is 08/06/2022

I can see now that I was in the country when the PCN was issued, but I didn't immediately use my car or notice the suspension or PCN.

Many thanks.

I also have black box insurance that shows the car wasn't used between 15th May and 9th June.
stamfordman
Dates are awkward as you had plenty of time to check car and in London suspensions are common.
cp8759
What time did you park on the 14th?
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 10 Jun 2022 - 16:43) *
What time did you park on the 14th?


Last log on the black box insurance says 9:48 PM on the 15th.

What about a defence of: my car wasn't in the suspended area. The sign says 'Residents bay outside 5 - 7 (2 car spaces) Railton Road' but my car isn't really positioned outside of those houses as per this photo taken by the warden.

Click to view attachment

Many thanks
hcandersen

It seems unreasonable to suspend the bay after I've parked in it.

I know these things are frustrating, but really........! If you leave you car unattended for such an extended period - nearly 4 weeks - then anticipate the worst in London. Managing the highway, people moving houses, utility works etc. are not going to be held to ransom by car drivers.

Anyway, IMO if your car is the silver Volvo then you were not within the suspended area which, if as you described, commenced at the beginning of the parking place and extended for 2 car spaces towards no. 7. The black car is already one car space into the bay, and 1+1 = 2 which ends before your front bumper.
Gert
Think you may find £65 has to be stumped up. The sign states two spaces outside 5 to 7 Railton Road. Your car is plum outside 7.

Whether you were away when the suspension sign went up is not the issue, its whether the council will hold you liable to have had to have checked the car and signs when you got back. The length of time between arrival home and PCN doesn't look to go in your favour.

hcandersen
@gert, so what is the suspended area?

Any part of the parking place between its start o/s 5 and the furthest extent of no.7, irrespective of this distance in terms of car lengths?

OP, IMO carry on. Either

1. They meant anywhere o/s nos. 5-7, in which case the sign is misleading, or
2. They meant 2 car lengths, in which case you were not within the suspended area.
astralite
I agree with hcandersen.

Other background points: It’s not clear when the notice of this 9 hour suspension on 8 June put up. Was any other warning given? Was the reason on the notice ‘Utility Companies (pay by card)’ acceptable/adequate?
cp8759
I have requested the parking suspension logs, but I have to say that i agree it doesn't look like the silver car is in the suspended area at all. Write a draft representation based on the above and post a draft on here and we will tidy it up for you.
parkingluvr79
Thanks all for helping me figure this out, here's a first stab at a reply:

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to challenge the referenced Penalty Charge Notice. I would like to submit an appeal as I do not believe my car was parked in the suspended area.

I have attached an annotated photo taken by your traffic warden for reference.

The suspension notice describes the affected area as 'Residents Bay Outside 5 - 7 (2 Car Spaces) Railton Road', which indicates that parking was suspended in the space shown in the photo without a car parked (marked A) , and the space where the black estate car is parked (marked B). My car (marked C) is parked in the third space in the bay and outside of the suspended area. I have also annotated the locations of houses number 5 and 7.

Yours sincerely,

Click to view attachment
cp8759
Yes that looks good.
astralite
It is good.
Send it.
Please let us know what they say.
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 14 Jun 2022 - 20:40) *
Yes that looks good.



QUOTE (astralite @ Tue, 14 Jun 2022 - 21:44) *
It is good.
Send it.
Please let us know what they say.


I didn't realise they'd send me a physical letter rather than reply to my email so was late to pick up the response, but received this a few days ago rejecting my appeal:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

The response looks pretty canned, they don't acknowledge my argument about the restriction being limited to 2 car spaces. I have 4 days to decide what to do. What would you do?
cp8759
QUOTE (parkingluvr79 @ Sun, 26 Jun 2022 - 12:08) *
I have 4 days to decide what to do. What would you do?

100% wait for the Notice to Owner. Do you have the V5C and is the address up to date?
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 08:21) *
QUOTE (parkingluvr79 @ Sun, 26 Jun 2022 - 12:08) *
I have 4 days to decide what to do. What would you do?

100% wait for the Notice to Owner. Do you have the V5C and is the address up to date?



I do and the address is up to date.
cp8759
Suspension logs:







We can see your car in the suspension log photos so there can be no doubt that the car was parked before the signs went up. The fact that they didn't record the VRM suggests the officer who put the signs up considered that you were parked outside the suspension area.
parkingluvr79
I have just received the Notice to Owner. Should I send the same reply back?
cp8759
No we can draft something better than that based on the suspension logs. Drop me a PM with your email address and I'll email you an unredacted copy of the response.
cp8759
What are the dates of your holiday please, and do you have any evidence like airline tickets, passport stamps and so on?
cp8759
Dear London Borough of Lambeth,

I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. As the suspension logs confirm, the signs were put up on 1 June for a suspension that came into force on 8 June, my car was parked in the bays prior to the signs going up, and I contend that the notice period given was wholly inadequate.

Furthermore, I dispute that my car was parked in the suspended area in any event. The suspension was in force in the 'Residents bay outside 5 - 7 (2 car spaces)' but my car was not really positioned outside of those houses, this is corroborated by the fact that my car's VRM was not noted in the suspension log. This suggests that the officer who put up the suspension signs did not make a note of my registration because he was also of the view that my car was parked outside of the suspended area, such that noting my VRM was unnecessary.

In light of the above it is apparent that no contravention occurred and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfullly,
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 28 Jul 2022 - 22:40) *
Dear London Borough of Lambeth,

I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. As the suspension logs confirm, the signs were put up on 1 June for a suspension that came into force on 8 June, my car was parked in the bays prior to the signs going up, and I contend that the notice period given was wholly inadequate.

Furthermore, I dispute that my car was parked in the suspended area in any event. The suspension was in force in the 'Residents bay outside 5 - 7 (2 car spaces)' but my car was not really positioned outside of those houses, this is corroborated by the fact that my car's VRM was not noted in the suspension log. This suggests that the officer who put up the suspension signs did not make a note of my registration because he was also of the view that my car was parked outside of the suspended area, such that noting my VRM was unnecessary.

In light of the above it is apparent that no contravention occurred and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfullly,


Thanks - I have received the attached reply, disagreeing with our rationale.

As I understand it, the council believes my car wasn't parked in the space when they put the signs up. However, the photos provided in suspension logs show my car parked when the signs were put up.

Should I write back to them with a copy of the suspension logs, showing my car clearly parked when the signs were put up?

Click to view attachment
cp8759
Let's see the rest of the rejection please. Also, would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 16 Aug 2022 - 13:32) *
Let's see the rest of the rejection please. Also, would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?




Thanks, please see the other side above. I think I can represent myself, but thanks for the kind offer. For my written evidence I plan to send the following, along with the suspension logs. Please do let me know if you have a better idea.

QUOTE
Dear Adjudicator,

I challenge liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. As the suspension logs confirm, the signs were put up on 1 June for a suspension that came into force on 8 June, my car was parked in the bays prior to the signs going up, and I contend that the notice period given was wholly inadequate.

Furthermore, I dispute that my car was parked in the suspended area in any event. The suspension was in force in the 'Residents bay outside 5 - 7 (2 car spaces)' but my car was not really positioned outside of those houses, this is corroborated by the fact that my car's VRM was not noted in the suspension log. This suggests that the officer who put up the suspension signs did not make a note of my registration because they were also of the view that my car was parked outside of the suspended area, such that noting my VRM was unnecessary.

I also find Lambeth’s rejection of my appeal, on the grounds that my vehicle was parked after the suspension signs went up, frivolous. My car is seen clearly in photos taken by the officer when the suspension signs were put up, proving that my car was parked when the signs went up. This suggests the enforcement officers at Lambeth Council have not cared to look at the suspension logs when dealing with my case.

In light of the above it is apparent that no contravention occurred and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,
cp8759
When you log the appeal on the tribunal you get a box where you can explain your appeal, it's not a letter so you can drop "Dear Adjudicator," and "Yours faithfully,". You've covered the essential points, are you planning for a hearing or a decision on the papers?

Also if you PM me your email address I will send you the original PDF response with the suspension log so that you can upload it to the tribunal portal.
parkingluvr79
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 26 Aug 2022 - 23:20) *
When you log the appeal on the tribunal you get a box where you can explain your appeal, it's not a letter so you can drop "Dear Adjudicator," and "Yours faithfully,". You've covered the essential points, are you planning for a hearing or a decision on the papers?

Also if you PM me your email address I will send you the original PDF response with the suspension log so that you can upload it to the tribunal portal.


Good news! Lambeth are not contesting my appeal. Thanks to all who contributed on this thread, and especially cp8759.

Click to view attachment
astralite
Very good news.
Well done.
cp8759
Well done!
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