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legalisedtheft
Hello,

Firstly can I say thank you for your amazing work here. PCN + pictures here:

https://imgur.com/a/7LSQFDu

I was issued a council PCN for parking without a valid ticket in an off-street carpark. I actually had an old, invalid ticket displayed on windshield at the time, so my fault completely.

However, looking at the PCN pictures, the CEO seems to have very deliberately placed the PCN over the EXACT location on the windshield with my (old, invalid) ticket displayed. Furthermore, the general picture quality is really poor with a lot of reflections.

Chiefly, there is no picture of the full windshield/vehicle WITHOUT the PCN (which ironically would have shown the old and invalid ticket). Therefore, they cannot prove that a ticket was not correctly displayed at the time? Also Image 4 seems to be pretty bizarre, not sure what it illustrates. Of course, the machine records will show it never issued a valid ticket for me so I can't escape that one, but on the face of it I think it's cut and dry in my favour?

Can I appeal on any grounds (procedural)?
Should I request higher quality images?
Council says it can provide CCTV images if requested.
stamfordman
Pictures are not required for parking PCNs. The CEO's notes are sufficient.

Why didn't you buy a ticket?
legalisedtheft
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Jun 2022 - 14:55) *
Pictures are not required for parking PCNs. The CEO's notes are sufficient.

Why didn't you buy a ticket?


Thanks, it clearly wasn't intentional on my part. I find it hard to believe an authority's "notes" are sufficient - is this really the bar of evidence in this country?
stamfordman
QUOTE (legalisedtheft @ Tue, 21 Jun 2022 - 15:37) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 21 Jun 2022 - 14:55) *
Pictures are not required for parking PCNs. The CEO's notes are sufficient.

Why didn't you buy a ticket?


Thanks, it clearly wasn't intentional on my part. I find it hard to believe an authority's "notes" are sufficient - is this really the bar of evidence in this country?


It's a parking PCN not a murder case.

Anyway, the CEO did take pics and the presence of an old ticket doesn't mean anything unless it was a freshly expired one.

What would be evidence is if you'd bought a ticket and it had say slipped off the dash.
hcandersen

I actually had an old, invalid ticket displayed

Sorry OP, but what's the point you're trying to make here?

There's no 'invalid' in car parks, you're either complying by displaying a valid ticket (if required) or you are not.

By your own account you were not, therefore the PCN grounds appear to be sound.
spaceman
QUOTE (legalisedtheft @ Tue, 21 Jun 2022 - 15:37) *
Thanks, it clearly wasn't intentional on my part. I find it hard to believe an authority's "notes" are sufficient - is this really the bar of evidence in this country?

The legal threshold for a civil case in the UK is 'balance of probability', i.e. given two sets of different circumstances and based on the evidence, which is more likely.

Why do you say it "clearly wasn't intentional"? What was unintentional about your failure to buy a ticket?
legalisedtheft
Cheers, I appreciate it's not in the spirit so I might just pay up on this one.
cp8759
QUOTE (legalisedtheft @ Tue, 21 Jun 2022 - 15:37) *
Thanks, it clearly wasn't intentional on my part. I find it hard to believe an authority's "notes" are sufficient - is this really the bar of evidence in this country?

It depends on what other evidence there is in the balance. If you turned up at the tribunal and said that you had a valid ticket, and could show a valid pay and display ticket to the adjudicator, plainly your version of events would prevail. I've seen a number of cases recently where the adjudicator simply didn't believe the CEO.

The problem you have here is that the CEO's version of events is correct, and given that you can't lie to the adjudicator you have no countervailing evidence to put forward. If the adjudicator asks you if you bought a ticket the very best you could do is decline to answer, and an adjudicator could hardly be blamed from inferring that your inability to answer stems from the fact that the CEO was right all along.
Schofeldt
I think you are doing the right thing under the circumstances.
DancingDad
Can we clarify the "old, invalid ticket"
IF truly old and invalid, ie from a totally different parking session, then it is irrelevant.
If from that parking session and time expired, there may be some mileage.
cp8759
Let's go back to basics: what was your reason for not having a pay & display ticket? Did you just take a chance and got caught out, or is there something more to it?
mickR
QUOTE (legalisedtheft)
However, looking at the PCN pictures, the CEO seems to have very deliberately placed the PCN over the EXACT location on the windshield with my (old, invalid) ticket displayed.

and??

QUOTE
Chiefly, there is no picture of the full windshield/vehicle WITHOUT the PCN (which ironically would have shown the old and invalid ticket). Therefore, they cannot prove that a ticket was not correctly displayed at the time?

err.... well taking your next comment into account then yes they can......
QUOTE
Of course, the machine records will show it never issued a valid ticket for me


QUOTE
on the face of it I think it's cut and dry in my favour?

I think not.
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