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mirbeforesunsetpure
Hi

Last week I was on holiday in Bournemouth. I have a blue badge (and a motability car) due to my disability, and am used to using it in council car parks to park for free.

I parked in a BCP council car park, in a disabled bay and displayed my blue badge. My partner and I looked at the sign in the car park, but there was no specific mention of blue badges, so we assumed this meant blue badge owners could park for free. Every other council car park I've ever parked in has had free parking for blue badge holders. However we returned the the car with a PCN on the windscreen, saying we were parked in a car park with clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher or parking clock.

The parking sign is here. Click to view attachment

So I'm assuming that this means blue badge holders are meant to get a pay and display ticket? It confuses me as there's no mention of blue badges, and whilst a lot of disabled people have tax exempt vehicles, the blue badge can be used in any car the holder of the badge is in. For example I've used it to get free parking in my mum's car when I'm out with her and she is driving.

I've challenged the PCN saying the signs are confusing with no specific mention of blue badges. All my blue badge information suggests unless stated otherwise council car parks allow blue badge holders to park for free. After googling the issue I suspect the sign has been written to be deliberately confusing. Searching my numberplate on the DVLA quickly shows it is tax exempt for disability related reasons, hence I have no idea why BCP council run a local disabled tax exempt vehicles scheme, which as I don't live there would have cost £25 to sort out for a one week holiday.

Many thanks for any suggestions on fighting this.
stamfordman
You're assuming they will reject but they may not so post their reply when it comes.

You can post the PCN, council pics and your challenge in the meantime and I'm sure someone will dig out the order for the car park.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited. https://imgbb.com has BBCode to embed pics on the forum. Set uploads not to autodelete if signed up and using https://imgbb.com Or use Google Docs, Dropbox etc.

cp8759
As stamfordman says, we need to see the paperwork. However the sign itself seems clear enough: it says that Disabled Tax Exempt Vehicles must pay the charge unless they hold a Disabled Tax Exempt permit issued by BCP council. So unless you had a Disabled Tax Exempt permit issued by BCP council, you were required to pay.

Of course none of that means that the PCN can't be challenged, but we need to see the paperwork first.
mirbeforesunsetpure
Here is the PCN paperwork.




This is what I wrote for the challenge information:
"I'm challenging it as I have a blue badge, and the parking signs don't specifically mention that blue badge owners actually have to pay to park, there is just mention of a local tax exemption scheme. Blue badge literature has always indicated that unless a council car park sign specifically says blue badge users still have to pay for parking then blue badge users are exempt from paying."
stamfordman
Issue as said by CP is that you have a Motability car which is tax exempt so the sign does seem clear in your case.
cp8759
Let's see their rejection please.
mirbeforesunsetpure
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 18:02) *
Let's see their rejection please.



They haven't made a decision yet, when they do I'll post it.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 17:59) *
Issue as said by CP is that you have a Motability car which is tax exempt so the sign does seem clear in your case.


Yeah and I do see that now, it's just that everywhere else I've been the disabled parking has been if you have a blue badge or not, as blue badges can be used in any car the holder is travelling in. The only time I think about the car being tax exempt is on toll bridges and when my PIP renewals come through.

The BCP tax exempt scheme is essentially having to send benefit and medical letters to BCP, and pay £25 for it when they could just put my numberplate into the DVLA website to see that it is exempt. There's also no information about this scheme on the tourist parts of the BCP council website, nor any mentions about it on their pages about blue badges.
cp8759
The fact that their scheme is not very good is not a ground of appeal I'm afraid.
mirbeforesunsetpure
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 18:11) *
The fact that their scheme is not very good is not a ground of appeal I'm afraid.


Yeah I know, hence why I do suspect they'll reject it. It seems obvious looking at it now after the fact.
cp8759
QUOTE (mirbeforesunsetpure @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 18:13) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 18:11) *
The fact that their scheme is not very good is not a ground of appeal I'm afraid.


Yeah I know, hence why I do suspect they'll reject it. It seems obvious looking at it now after the fact.

I wouldn't take that for granted, many councils are very lenient with blue badge holders.
DancingDad
See what comes back .

Though what Disabled Tax Exempt vehicles have to do with paying or not seems strange to me. I run one and apart from CAZ and ULEZ, do not expect any benefit due to the tax class.
MMV Redux
Lots of Council run car parks charge Blue Badge holders nowadays. Bit silly really when they can park on the nearest DYL for three hours.


Last week in a Council car park, I was sitting in a motability vehicle and a CEO said I needed a ticket. How long has this been going on says I, from April says he. Then mistaking me as disabled (my disabled wife and daughter were shopping) he traipsed 50 yards to a machine and came back with a ticket for me God bless him. But the daft thing was that it was a free ticket for 3 hours which was required on top of the BB and clock on display.


In this case, the issue of free parking for council issued BBs and payment for other BB holders suggests discrimination, but whether a case could be made is doubtful.


If the Council are not lenient and fail to cancel it might be worthwhile complaining to the Local Government Ombudsman.


MMV
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 21:04) *
See what comes back .

Though what Disabled Tax Exempt vehicles have to do with paying or not seems strange to me. I run one and apart from CAZ and ULEZ, do not expect any benefit due to the tax class.


The M6 toll is a great benefit for me £7 buys you a years worth of free transit and now i have a daughter and grandkids in Coventry it's a godsend

Also as MMV says i will park on ADYL outside a car park that charges. council or private some rules are just daft
mirbeforesunsetpure
Just thought I'd post again, it's been over 3 months since I challenged the PCN and I still haven't heard back from BCP (apart from emails saying they are very busy and will get to me eventually). I've emailed them again tonight to follow it up as i would prefer this is over and done with.
Incandescent
There is no time limit on informal challenges to PCNs, but there is a 6 month time limit on issuing a Notice to Owner. Challenges to those have a 56 day limit for a reply.

Just so you know, cheers !
Slapdash
Free LA car parks are not that common.

My local authority allows free parking in most of it's car parks. In Bath the most inconvenient central ish car park is free for BB. No others are.

The leaflet you got is quite clear that you must check in any off street cark, be it local authority or otherwise.

(Personally I think it would be a good idea to force car parks to allow 3hrs free at a minimum. It might reduce the amount of DYL parking)

The same is true for resident bays and such like. Some authoritys allow their use, some don't.


SX4
At the risk of been shouted down , one of my local councils also charge blue badge holders in there car parks.
My mother who holds a blue badge does not agree with free parking for disabled badge holders, her reasoning and also mine is ability to not walk far does not affect there ability to pay .
A lot of disabled people are financially better off than for instance the unemployed or low wage earners, my mum is on the higher rate disability allowance and together with her pension is a lot better off than I was when I was working , she thinks that she should pay but be allowed to park nearer to her destination.
On a personal opinion a lot of disabled drivers don’t park illegally but park inconsiderately sometimes causing obstruction for other vehicles needing to manoeuvre.
Flack jacket now on waiting to be shot down.
hcandersen

Hear hear to your mother. But of course her view is based upon her individual life experience and there will be cases where affordability is linked to a person's disability.

On your point, hear hear again. A BB is not a carte blanche to park indiscriminately (and then have the audacity to shout discrimination when taken to task...flak jacket at the ready).

On-street law is a one-size-fits-all approach(with limited exceptions) leaving councils with little discretion, however, off-street is a separate matter and IMO locally-elected and accountable councillors should not be criticised for putting in place more targeted restrictions e.g. holders who actually pay council tax in the area or hold a resident's permit or the severity of their disability etc.

cp8759
QUOTE (mirbeforesunsetpure @ Thu, 6 Oct 2022 - 00:42) *
Just thought I'd post again, it's been over 3 months since I challenged the PCN and I still haven't heard back from BCP (apart from emails saying they are very busy and will get to me eventually). I've emailed them again tonight to follow it up as i would prefer this is over and done with.

Frankly the longer they take the better. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the PCN, an unwarranted delay of over three months is deemed unfair at common law and could be enough to win on its own. Frankly it would have been better if you hadn't chased it, because the longer the delay the better.
mirbeforesunsetpure
Ok, they got back to me, they cancelled the PCN in August but forgot to email me to tell me they'd cancelled it. At least it was cancelled.
Slapdash
Glad it was cancelled.

Regarding flak jackets. I get a BB which I auto qualify for. I try and avoid DYLs.

Before having my issues I would park either a way away or in the modestly priced car park.

The latter is a bit of issue now because I can't walk very far very often and I can't carry much. A result of this is I have to do it much more often. For many this may be an issue, just another increased cost (though a pip helps and is the sort of thing it is intended for).

A one size fits all approach is the lowest common denominator though. But it does seem to lead to a fair amount of obstructive parking "because I can". Perhaps a shorter time limit would help.
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