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blackheathbaggie
QUOTE (Durzel @ Tue, 5 Aug 2008 - 15:15) *
Based on what you've said on here it doesn't sound like you earnestly believe you weren't speeding, but in fact are just looking for everything and anything that may or may not end up exonerating you on a technicality. This, as remarked already, is not a good foundation for a defence - you have to present a genuine reason for why you need the information you are requesting.
I'm not sure wether I was speeding or not, all i know is that there are loads of cases where these readings have been wrong, so why should i take there word for it by seeing a single frame of a photo. They have to work to a system and i'm using that system to see they're evidence against me because thats my right. I may even change my plea if it becomes obvious i have no way of proving my innocence or there mistakes because as far as i'm concerned motoring law in this country doesn't treat people as innocent until proven guilty, you have to prove your innocence not them proving your guilt, unless you've got plenty of cash for a top solicitor.

QUOTE
You have to appreciate that asking for each bit of evidence "just for the sake of it" does not give the impression that you actually have a defence for the offence, but that you're hoping to find a defence somewhere along the line.
That is exactly what i'm doing, thats what solicitors do every day and they get paid ££££'s for doing it.

QUOTE
Just my 2p - sorry for any offence caused. I'm all for people fighting the good fight when there is genuinely doubt over the process/charge.
No offence taken, everybody is entitled to there own personal opinion, But in my opinion until everyone starts questioning the system, fighting cases instead of just giving up and handing them 3 points and OUR money, nothing will change.
blackheathbaggie
Forgot to mention that at least me reading this site has helped one poor soul today. Somebody I got talking too was in court for a s172 he told me he also had another s172 offence being heard soon and was looking at losing his licence. I advised him that i had read somewhere on here that he may be able to ask to have both cases heard together and get sentenced for them together. On leaving the court he told me he'd asked for this and got 6 points for both offences instead of 6 points each and is now still on the road.
blackheathbaggie
ok today i went to court and i think I've made a very big mistake, I pleaded guilty and got the 3 points and a £80 fine plus, £100 costs and £20 victim support. While waiting I was given a envelope which i didn't open until I got home.It contained the video tape of the van on the day. I have played it and it pretty much goes like this, at 12.33 and 46 seconds an ERROR 3 message is displayed, one second later at 12.33 and 47 seconds a -35 is displayed and a TIMEOUT message appears. Is it normal for a ERROR 3 message to appear 1 second before the speed is recorded????
The Rookie
Yes, all it means is the first attempted reading was duff, so he took another at the 35mph, nothing out of the ordinary with that.

Simon
blackheathbaggie
why then does the TIMEOUT appear???? also it doesn't look anywhere near the 80.8 mtrs that it says on the tape, i know the road and its only about 30-40 mtrs at most to where it shows me to be on the film. Guess its too late now i've pleaded guilty anyway.
The Rookie
The timout appears (look at the main site for examples) a set time after a speed reading is taken to stop the scammer getting lots of still of cars doing that last recorded speed!

Simon
cjard
Does the video show that the operator formed prior opinion of your speeding? Does the location of the vehicle, in combination with the tracker data support the notion that your van was obviously breaking the speed limit?

If you can show the tracker data from the region where your van would have been driving so that the operator could form prior opinion, and that data shows you to be doing ~31mph and later on it STILL shows your van to be doing 31mph, then I'd say you can argue that no prior opinion could have been formed.

Dr Science's case outlines that vehicles on bends gun at a higher speed than they were doing, but you also need to weight this against GPS typically calculating that a vehicle is going slower than it truly is, when travelling on a bend. This obviously affects the argument above. Watch the full video of everyone being done. You may additionally find evidence that the operator guns everybody, including people who are blatantly not breaking the law. A recent win on here came as the operator was videod gunning a cyclist. In court, he said he frequently got bored. Remember that it is his opinion you were speeding, backed up by the LTI that convicts you.. It is not him being a monkey, pushing buttons and using the device reading alone to convict you. Have a read of (i think) borsicorn's case
blackheathbaggie
Thanks for your help Simon and to all the others who have took the time to reply to my tedious questioning on here, Its a shame I didn't get the result I wanted and I'm now wishing i didn't change my plea because as I just posted there is no way that i was the stated 80.8mtrs that the film states. I guess i'll never know. Thanks again.
cjard
in light of new evidence that you feel has a bearing on your case, you can lodge an appeal. Is the video "new evidence" ? You dont seem to have known of the contents of the video until after the verdict. Why not?
blackheathbaggie
Because I wasn't given it until i was walking into the court in an envelope despite being promised it weeks ago and i wasn't even sure it was a video tape. I had decided to change my plea because I was told in court last week that I would only be allowed to view the video at a place they said. I wasn't really sure what i was looking for (my only defence being that i was pretty sure i wasn't speeding)so would have been veiwing it without knowing what to look for to defend myself and was originally hoping that someone who had a bit more expertise could take a look and help. I guess I should in hindsight have opened the envelope and viewed it before making my plea.
cjard
So, an item of evidence that you had asked for but were not granted, including the opportunity to view it offered but not completed, is now new in this case? They cannot just dump a tape in your lap on the morning of the trial, I'm sure. Dr Science may have a comment on this one because there were deliberate disclosure delays in his case..
blackheathbaggie
it wasn't the morning of the trial, i attended a pre-trial revue last week where it was adjorned because i had asked for the operator of the camera to attend court at the trial and they needed to know what dates he was available, i also asked for a full copy of the video evidence for myself to view but was told that i would have to view a shortened version at the place where they are kept and i would be informed by the CPS when/where i would need to go. In light of only being able to view the tape like this and the fact that i wouldn't be able to get expert advice on the tape because of this I decided to attend this week and change my plea to guilty as I hoped that by pleading guilty at the earliest opertunity in a case I nolonger thought I could win would be to my advantage, how wrong I was.
The Rookie
QUOTE (blackheathbaggie @ Tue, 12 Aug 2008 - 16:38) *
As I hoped that by pleading guilty at the earliest opertunity in a case I no longer thought I could win would be to my advantage, how wrong I was.


To be fair, you didn't plead guilty at the earliest opportunity though....you'd already had one hearing and a PTR.

Simon
Scottish Driver
So does the video show the complete site session or just the fews econds surrounding your offence ?
nemo
QUOTE (Scottish Driver @ Fri, 14 Aug 2009 - 21:12) *
So does the video show the complete site session or just the fews econds surrounding your offence ?

I assume you are aware that this thread is over a year old and that the OP hasn't paid a visit to these forums for over 6 months ?
Scottish Driver
QUOTE (nemo @ Fri, 14 Aug 2009 - 21:19) *
QUOTE (Scottish Driver @ Fri, 14 Aug 2009 - 21:12) *
So does the video show the complete site session or just the fews econds surrounding your offence ?

I assume you are aware that this thread is over a year old and that the OP hasn't paid a visit to these forums for over 6 months ?


I was aware of the former but not the latter smile.gif
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